Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge

I'm not insisting that they be built with them. I'm just stating that
they'd better be damn appealing - more so than most new cars - if the
manufacturer expects me to buy them[/QUOTE]

But since you are one of three people who cares like this, the real
world says manufacturers wouldn't care about you and your wants even if
they knew about you.

I'm talking real world here.

 

These are the same types as people who own computers for the sake of
owning computers. They love to fiddle and measure clock speeds and
broadband speeds and know the cpu temperature and how it measures on
benchmarks, and then fiddle some more to see if they can beat their
benchmarks.

You don't want those people making strategical decisions on how to
deploy a technology infrastructure within a corporation.

Same with the cars: you don't want the engineers who have to know the
temperature at the top of the piston ("just in case, to avoid failure")
to be involved in managing the money pump that is an auto manufacturer.
[/QUOTE]

you'd certainly want to know in the r&d phase to see whether the cheapo
pistons you're trying to use will melt at w.o.t. but once you've
determined that relative to design life, then it's completely over. all
attention then turns to q.c. and cost management.

 

Why not? Driving a vehicle carries with it some sense of
responsibility. Certainly CDL holders are already required to know far
more about how their vehicle operates than simply monitoring four
simple, basic gauges.

nate

 

These are the same types as people who own computers for the sake of
owning computers. They love to fiddle and measure clock speeds and
broadband speeds and know the cpu temperature and how it measures on
benchmarks, and then fiddle some more to see if they can beat their
benchmarks.

You don't want those people making strategical decisions on how to
deploy a technology infrastructure within a corporation.

Same with the cars: you don't want the engineers who have to know the
temperature at the top of the piston ("just in case, to avoid failure")
to be involved in managing the money pump that is an auto manufacturer.
[/QUOTE]

We're not talking about throwing thermocouples in there willy-nilly.
We're talking about the basic instrumentation necessary to give you a
high-level view of the basic operating parameters and health of the engine.

nate

 

But since you are one of three people who cares like this, the real
world says manufacturers wouldn't care about you and your wants even if
they knew about you.

I'm talking real world here.
[/QUOTE]

Odd, then, that the two cars that I own came with all the basic
instrumentation, with calibrated scales even, straight off the assembly
line. Seems like you meant to say "GM, Ford, and Honda don't care about
me and my wants." I realized that a long time ago (for many reasons, of
which the "idiot panel" is only one small one,) which is why I don't
really care about their cars, with the possible exception of the 'vette
and the S2000 which I would assume actually come with proper
instrumentation.

nate

 

Odd, then, that the two cars that I own came with all the basic
instrumentation, with calibrated scales even, straight off the assembly
line. Seems like you meant to say "GM, Ford, and Honda don't care about
me and my wants."[/QUOTE]

BMW doesn't, either.

 

We're not talking about throwing thermocouples in there willy-nilly.
We're talking about the basic instrumentation necessary to give you a
high-level view of the basic operating parameters and health of the engine.
[/QUOTE]

Again: that "basic" instrumentation is beyond 99.9% of the auto buying
and driving public.

 

Why not? Driving a vehicle carries with it some sense of
responsibility.[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't make much of a politician, I'll tell you that.

Again, real world: there is no personal responsibility. Just ask the
courts and any lawyer you want.

We as a society are way, WAY beyond assuming any sort of personal
responsibility, ESPECIALLY for something as fundamentally necessary as
personal transportation.

You can't put that smoke back into the bottle.

 

the only "responsibility" that matters is legal responsibility. you
don't sign a contract to monitor any gauges in your car when you buy it.
and you /certainly/ don't get auto manufacturers sue drivers for
failing to check oil levels and fucking up their beautiful machines.

really? in what way? is it legally enforceable?

 

but it *can* put you in a difficult spot if, say, your vehicle breaks
down in the middle of a long tunnel and you get to pay for the
quick-response tow service to yank you out of there. Plus if I'm
spending a huge amount of money - likely the largest single item
expenditure most people make, save for a house, and unlike a house, a
car depreciates like mad - on a car, I want it to be reliable and in
good condition for as long as possible.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/49cfr383_00.html

and yes - if you don't pass the test, you can't legally operate a
commercial vehicle (as defined by the government.)

nate

 

really? in what way? is it legally enforceable?[/QUOTE]

Only for the purposes of taking the CDL test.

 

That's why I avoid the German marques like crazy, and stick with Honda
or Toyota.

It's simple statistics.

 

Only for the purposes of taking the CDL test.
[/QUOTE]

and for a normal private license???

 

eh? you didn't read what i actually said - you're responding to what
you /wanted/ me to say.

are you trying to be funny?

eh? see above.

 

That's not the question. The point is your total cost is '$300' only if
you don't value your labor.

 

Most, if not all the cars on the US market today perform at levels
beyond a similiar percentage of the auto buying and driving public, yet
automakers aren't limiting themselves to basic transportion like a base
model '60 ford falcon.

Seems that automakers don't have a problem creating cars that are beyond
the vast majority of customers.

Given modern technology and what the engine management computer already
monitors, we are talking a system that would only cost a couple of
dollars per car and could absorb other functions making it's net cost
zero or even a cost savings.

 

no, you cancel out both sides of the equation. the labor to remove and
refit an engine is the same on both sides, whether it's rebuilt or
replaced. the equation then becomes /my/ cost to replace at $300 vs.
/his/ cost to rebuild, with parts, plus a ton /more/ labor.

 

Again that is *NOT* the question. Nate said with proper instrumentation
he could spot an impending failure before it became a siezed engine and
be repaired without yanking it out. You said a replacement engine is
only $300, so who cares, just run it until it becomes a paperweight. I
responded that it's only $300 if you value your labor at zero.

Try to follow along.

 

oh, i get it, you can't argue the point /you/ raised, so now you want to
change it back onto another topic, and ignore anything that doesn't
suit. sorry, my mistake.

 

And that line of thinking IS your first ****-up.