Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge

Are you honestly telling me that the car buying public operates their
cars on this basis?

Fact: they don't.[/QUOTE]

That's not my fault.
--scott

 

Permit me to summarize this thread.

Mr. Nagel points out that having realtime information from gauges permits
one to predict possible impending failures.

Mr. Beam points out that most drivers are drooling mouthbreathers who
should never be allowed behind the wheel of a car.

Both of these statements are true. However, the second statement does
not invalidate the first one.

Most drivers don't watch the gauges, it's true. But most drivers don't
stop at stop signs or signal turns either. Does that mean we should take
all the signs down and stop requiring cars to have turn signals? I do not
believe so.
--scott

 

This is true.

This is an exaggeration, but an oil pressure gauge is a nice thing to have.

That's true, but sooner or later that new Rabbit convertible is going to
be an old car. Unless the daughter melts the engine down by driving without
oil.

A well-maintained and well-driven car has a good chance of becoming an old
car, that can continue to be driven by someone. This is a good thing.

Not at all. It's the same car, just with 20 years elapsed.
--scott

 

Um, the question is having gauges to prevent needing either vs. driving
it into the ground and replacing.

 

That's true, but sooner or later that new Rabbit convertible is going to
be an old car.[/QUOTE]

At which point you add whatever instrumentation you'd like.

Therefore, I repeat: in the real world of auto sales, gauges are not
necessary and add nothing to the owner's experience.

The automakers aren't in the business of selling OLD cars.

 

This is true.

This is not true. Just because it CAN do a better job doesn't mean anyone
is bothering to make it do so.[/QUOTE]

The fact is, they are doing a better job with the computer programming
than a human can with whatever gauges would fit into the dashboard.

 

You plainly don't understand marketing and sales.[/QUOTE]

I understand it just fine.

Nice straw man.

Ford could have a real temp gauge in my mustang with a different
printing on the dash. Instead of NORMAL it could actually have numbers.
For the oil pressure same thing with a real sender. Cost difference =
ZERO.

Alternatively the OBD2 functions could be put into a display wrapped up
with the idiot lights and it would probably be a cost savings. It could
easily display virtual gauges.

 

Ah, then you DON'T pay any attention to the actual auto market:

http://www.vw.com/rabbit/en/us/

It seems your grasp of the world outside your house is weak.

 

There is no A5 Golf/Wabbit 'vert; not sure if there is one in the works
(VW seems to let 'vert introductions lag behind model intros, although
if they were true to pattern there *would* be one) since they already
have the Eos and the New Beetle Cabriolet, although the latter is
probably going to be discontinued eventually unless VW chooses to revise
the NB (a NNB?) as the chassis it is currently built on is obsolete.

Speaking of which, why have I seen appx. two Eoses outside of my local
VW dealer? It's really a rather appealing little car if you're not
interested in ultimate performance but are simply looking for something
to tool around in with a removable top. Too bad it's not available with
a TDI, then it'd be practical and economical as well.

nate

 

eh? you're the one who said "If you value your labor at zero".

 

The fact is, they are doing a better job with the computer programming
than a human can with whatever gauges would fit into the dashboard.
[/QUOTE]

and it's the same engineers who spec that stuff as who fit dummy gauges
for the nate's of this world to look at. they /know/ what they're doing.

 

but what he doesn't say is that these gauges do absolutely /nothing/ to
prevent them!!! a gauge may tell you your tire is flat, but it does
nothing to stop that nail puncturing it.

that's not true. i merely point out that because the geeks that design
these things /know/ what they're doing, they /know/ that the vehicle
remains in spec, given correct maintenance, for its lifetime. the
instrumentation that does their initial homework is /not/ necessary for
the consumer to operate it. just like elmo's refrigerator analogy.

heck, /i'm/ mr anal retentive when it comes to my car, and /i/ don't
need gauges to run the thing. test it, sure, but not run it.

 

If you consider the 'cost' to be $300 then you value your labor at zero.
Duh.

 

You obviously don't know jack shit about product development.

 

What you get in the dash is a function of industrial design and
marketing. The engineers who developed the product have
practically nothing to do with those decisions.

As far as what those 'geeks' do, well, the ones I know tend to add the
gauges they want even if they are hacked in and laying on the floor

 

There is no A5 Golf/Wabbit 'vert; not sure if there is one in the works[/QUOTE]

The point remains, the last Wabbit was made....3 minutes ago, not in
1984.

And your grasp of the ACTUAL world outside your lab, Dr. Brown, is weak.
The fact remains, people don't want the gauges, and the fact that cars
of all kinds and ages are driving around is proof that people don't need
the gauges.

The ditzy 16yo girl next door wouldn't know what to do with the gauges
(except complain about them) if she had them. Hell, she might not even
complain, 'cuz she wouldn't even know they were there--she's too busy
doing other things.

 

I understand it just fine.[/QUOTE]

Your words speak for themselves.

 

HAhahahahahahaha! you've never owned a GM car then have you.

Their engineers may know what they're doing, but they don't get to do
the *right* thing. Their cars are crap.

nate

 

Your words speak for themselves.[/QUOTE]

So, elmo, how long have you worked as an engineer in product
development?

 

So, elmo, how long have you worked as an engineer in product
development?[/QUOTE]

Alongside WITH such engineers? 10 years.