worries about the honda civic hybrid (or any hybrid)

I really want to buy a Honda Civic Hybrid, but I'm scared. The dealer
I spoke with yesterday said that you get an eight year warranty on the
electric motor battery in a Honda Hybrid. But what if the battery
fails after eight years? Suppliers I spoke with said new batteries for
the vehicle in question cost six thousand dollars! Does anybody really
know how long these batteries will last? Am I taking a substantial
risk by buying a hybrid car?

Any and all observations welcome. Matthew

 

If you are buying the hybrid thinking it will save you money in the long run
forget it. I saw an article recently on a coast to coast comparison between
the Hybrid and the Civic and there was little difference in fuel economy.

 

Not to discount the OP's question, a "coast to coast" fuel economy
comparison plays to the strength of the conventional engine and the weakness
of the hybrid.

 

Do they still make the HX?

My guess is that the hybrid battery pack won't cost very much in 8
years. It's going to be old technology. With any luck, we'll have
automotive fuel cells in 10 years so we can stop with all the internal
combustion engine milage and emissions tricks.

 

Bingo.

Honda will try to tell you that "oh, by then the cost of the batteries
will be way down." Uh-huh. Sure.

 

Will it fail in 8 years? Don't know. Wouldn't believe any answer
you get here. The NiMH batteries used by Honda are run on a very
shallow state of charge cycle, and at conservative powers, as
opposed to a pure EV where they are deep cycled.. Presumably
this will greatly help their lifetime. But aside from someone who
is directly working with this battery technology, and even then,
data on the lifetime is probably not definitive or easy to come
by..

$6K?? First, call your local Honda parts dept and ask what they
charge for a new battery. I'd guess more like $1500. But there
are other parts such as the motor and power control electronics
that might also eventually need replacing.

What will it cost in 8 years? Yes, the technology will get
cheaper, *if* it is widely supported. Honda probably is obliged
to carry replacement parts for longer than that. But if for some
reason the technology turns into a dead-end, they may not be
cheap. Still, my guess is they'll be cheaper. But that's only a
reasonable guess.

 

The battery pack is made up of D-cell NiMH batteries. If you go to
http://www.digikey.com you can buy enough batteries of the same
(actually a little higher) capacity to build a new battery pack for
$1800. I am not suggesting that anyone would do this, but it gives a
reference on the cost of the battery packs.

My guess is that you'll take a bigger hit on resale value than on
battery replacement if you keep that car long enough to worry about
replacing the batteries. If I were to buy an 8 year old car, I would
much prefer a conventional than a hybrid.

 

The $6k figure is taken out of thin air. More than likely, not a single
one of these battery packs have ever been sold to any car owner. What
type of suppliers were these? After-market automotive places?

 

You mean to tell me that not one single Hybrid has ever been in an
accident such that the battery packs have needed replaced?

Get a life, man. The battery packs are on the current price list, and
any parts man can look them up. No thin air whatsoever.

 

I don't see the battery price at www.hondaautomotiveparts.com for any
hybrid model.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

I don't see the battery price at www.hondaautomotiveparts.com for any
hybrid model.[/QUOTE]

And I don't see Honda dealers selling Doritos, either.

What does a parts site have to do with anything?

Just go ask the guy at the parts counter.

 

If you get in an accident bad enough that the battery pack is damaged,
then that car is totaled. With the low number of these cars out, chances
are no battery pack has ever been replaced except under warranty.

Thank you, that's good advice.

The battery pack is *not* on the current price list. Guestimate from
local Honda dealer is $2500 if you were to pay for one. Again, you can
buy the individual cells retail for $1800.

 

Agreed. Hybrids get their best fuel economy in stop and go city driving
where the electric motor's torque can help out most. On the highway, the
car relies primarily on the gas engine's power to maintain speed and barely
uses the electric motor at all.

 

That's not the case with the new Toyota Prius. It's a totally different
animal than anything Honda's engineered so far.

 

Perhaps so, but the Prius EPA gas mileage rating for the city cycle is
still higher than for the highway cycle (60 MPG vs. 55 MPG).

 

And I don't see Honda dealers selling Doritos, either.

What does a parts site have to do with anything?

Just go ask the guy at the parts counter.[/QUOTE]

And what do you think he uses to look up parts?

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

The battery pack might be the least of your worries on an 8 year old Civic.
What about the CVT transmission? Not too many of those running around.
What about the multiple computers?

What "suppliers" would have any idea what the Honda battery pack would cost?
They will all be under warranty for the next several years, so there is
minimal aftermarket demand for them now, if any at all.

The Civic has 120 "approximately D-Cell sized" 1.2v NiMH batteries, at 6
Amp Hours. I found D-Cell 9000mAH for $6.83 quantity 100+, $819.60 total.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2F212568

 

The battery pack might be the least of your worries on an 8 year old Civic.

CVTs are old, DAF put them in their cars starting in 1959. Since then
many car companies have used them, including Audi, Fiat, Ford, Honda,
Mini, Nissan (not similar to the other CVTs), Saturn, Subaru, Toyota,
Volvo (they bought DAF), my parent's old clothes washer etc.

 

Being US-centric, I didn't consider DAF or Fiat.
I also thought I would reference the EPA guide to see what was currently
available in the US. Honda, Mini, Nissan, Audi, Saturn and Toyota.
No Volvo, Subaru, or Ford in the US.

One less thing to worry about. It really comes down to the computers,
then. Those will be dealer-only for a long time.

 

IMA battery pack retail $2805.50 + tax