will honda's usa "marketing" dept learn this lesson?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by jim beam, Jul 4, 2007.

  1. jim beam

    jim beam Guest


    we learn that:
    "Honda said it sold 140,935 vehicles in June, up from 126,449 during the
    same month last year. Sales were led by the Civic and Fit small cars and
    the CR-V small sport utility vehicle."

    are you listening honda usa "marketing" department? are you going to
    pay attention this time? because your track record needs a little help.
    you didn't want to know about the crv. you didn't want to know about
    the fit [jazz]. and you have done everything you can to kill the
    civic's backbone, the civic hatchback. anyone would think y'all were
    getting backhanders from detroit or something. well, you're not are you?
    jim beam, Jul 4, 2007
  2. jim beam

    Jim Yanik Guest

    I wish they would bring back the Prelude.
    Update it with LED turnsignals and taillights.
    Right now,Honda/Acura does not make anything I would buy.
    I'd buy an old 00-01 Prelude before I'd buy any new Honda/Acura.
    Jim Yanik, Jul 4, 2007
  3. I'm pretty sure they decided to aim the Accord coupe V6/manual
    transmission at that market.

    After all, the 'lude was built on the Accord chassis.
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jul 4, 2007

  4. I have a Supra (88) and a Scion tC (05)

    The seating position in the Civic Si is the same as the Supra.
    The seating position in the Scion is the same as Outback Steakhouse.

    Wish I had bought the Civic...
    Hachiroku ハチロク, Jul 5, 2007
  5. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    in which case, why not just sell a prelude? nobody buys an accord if
    they want something that is a little more fun. just like the crx was a
    no-brainer body transplant from the civic, so should be the prelude.
    jim beam, Jul 5, 2007
  6. in which case, why not just sell a prelude?[/QUOTE]

    Ah, but you forget: the beancounters were in charge during that time.

    It is cheaper to make the Accord than a model with different sheet metal
    and interior.

    They may yet bring back the 'lude, now that the engineers seem to be
    back on the throne, but no doubt it's way down on their to-do list.
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jul 5, 2007
  7. jim beam

    mjc13 Guest

    They've also managed to make the new Civics *ugly*. Toyota has done
    the same thing: given their cars unattractive, militaristic-looking
    noses like American vehicles tend to have. One really wonders if they
    realize who has been winning the sales wars the last 5 years, and who
    has been losing...
    mjc13, Jul 5, 2007
  8. jim beam

    Joe LaVigne Guest

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    I *hated* the look of the hatchback civics. I like the look of the new
    ones. The Si is a thing of beauty, IMO, and the rest of the line isn't
    that much different.

    Now, the Japanese Si Hatchback is a nice looking car, maintaining the new
    style look, and making it a hatch. I would buy one of those in a second if
    they were available here...
    Joe LaVigne, Jul 5, 2007
  9. jim beam

    Bucky Guest

    I think the current Civic is gorgeous, even better looking than
    previous generation, which was also an improvement over the previous
    generation before that.
    I do agree that Toyotas are pretty ugly.
    Bucky, Jul 5, 2007
  10. IMO, most manufacturers are making ugly cars now. Look at Nissan's
    line-up... Yuck!!!
    High Tech Misfit, Jul 5, 2007
  11. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    Ah, but you forget: the beancounters were in charge during that time.

    It is cheaper to make the Accord than a model with different sheet metal
    and interior.[/QUOTE]

    but the accord coupe is extensively re-worked. can't see any cost
    saving between that and a prelude.
    remains to be seen. they haven't cured the civic wishbone thing yet.
    and they're not addressing the fact that they don't have anything to
    touch the evo/wrx yet either. [that's a /serious/ failing.] all it
    takes is a new prelude with 4wd and a blown s2000 motor to get that ball
    rolling. even if it were limited edition. redirecting resources to
    giant suv's??? wtf were they thinking?

    btw, that wrx is one heckofa car. got passed by modded one a few weeks
    back - no idea what he had under the hood, but the noise was such that i
    looked in the mirror to see what was going on. wrx emerging from an
    on-ramp maybe 300 meters back. two shifts [and about as many seconds]
    later, he passed my sorry 85mph ass like i was standing still.
    seriously, that's one of the fastest vehicles i've ever seen. on or off
    the track. if honda had a vehicle, with motor, able to handle that kind
    of re-work, and wishbones, they could recapture the hearts and minds of
    the 2-ner/wrx crowd they blew apart back in 2001. and they should.
    jim beam, Jul 5, 2007
  12. but the accord coupe is extensively re-worked. can't see any cost
    saving between that and a prelude.[/QUOTE]

    Sure--because they were doing the Accord coupe anyway.

    When they chose to equip it with the V6 w/manual tranny, that was their
    nod to the 'lude crowd--which, by and large, had grown up and probably
    were very happy to have such a car.

    They gave a nod to that market without having to spend a bunch of money.
    Doing a full-on 'lude would have entailed MUCH more money, and plainly
    Honda didn't see any good return on such an effort.

    In the Civic line, I don't think there's anything to be "cured". It's
    just not a problem. Civics are selling well--and that's all Honda cares

    nah. Honda doesn't have the money Toyota has, not by far, so they're
    happy to stay out of those markets. Given Honda's history, that doesn't
    surprise me one bit.

    Well, the Pilot/MDX has sold well--no surprise, since that's the kind of
    car many people were buying.

    "What were they thinking"? I can tell you: "let's build an SUV that
    competes well in the SUV market, which is huge." No surprise there.

    The Ridgeline has its niche, too. It's a very, very strong vehicle.
    Not my cup of tea, but well done for those who like it.

    Ah, they could--but they clearly see their destiny lying elsewhere.
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jul 5, 2007
  13. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    Sure--because they were doing the Accord coupe anyway.[/QUOTE]

    but that's the illogical bit! just do it properly and call it a prelude!
    v6 is not "true honda" and hardly sells anywhere else in the world -
    it's pandering to the american market.
    really, not very much.
    vs how many accord coupe's sold? not many.
    disagree! it's handling that put honda on the map. they threw that out
    the window when they went macpherson on the civic. may as well buy a
    camry. or a subaru if you want a car with guts.
    but the point is, the civic was one of the most popular cars in the
    world in terms of gross sales. and incredibly popular on the track.
    and with a relatively low power motor! don't see many modern civics on
    the track because they don't handle. you see wrx's because what they
    lack in handling, they make up in power.

    but globally, that's a zero market - it just diverts resources. and
    domestically, unit sales aren't high either. cost of development vs. sales?

    yes, handing their customer base over to toyota, subaru, mitsubishi and
    nissan. they should stick to the one thing that used to differentiate
    them from the pack, and do it was well as possible - sports car handling
    on a cheap compact/family car. it's not like it costs that much more to
    produce, and when balanced against brand loyalty and repeat sales, is a
    jim beam, Jul 5, 2007
  14. jim beam

    JXStern Guest

    Well, I agree with the others here, that today's Accord coupes deliver
    whatever it is you think you'd get out of a Prelude.

    EXCEPT the distinction.

    I agree with you that, in terms of sizzle, Honda/Acura is
    determinately non-sizzling. The Si's are so-so, the S2000 is an
    engineering marvel but addresses only a tiny market, no successor to
    the NSX, no V8's for the top of the line. They seem to be
    underselling the Fix for reasons that escape me, but the thing is 500
    pounds too heavy in any case.

    My Accord is perhaps the world's best automotive bargain and an
    engineering marvel itself (as are also the Camry), but ... not as
    exciting as one would like.

    Just look at that new Audi R8 coupe ... bring back a Prelude in that
    class, why doncha?

    JXStern, Jul 5, 2007
  15. disagree! it's handling that put honda on the map.[/QUOTE]

    That may have been so years back, but you can't dispute: Civics are
    selling well, AND that's all Honda cares about.

    Honda is a marketing company. If handling doesn't sell, then they won't
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jul 5, 2007
  16. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    That may have been so years back, but you can't dispute: Civics are
    selling well, AND that's all Honda cares about.[/QUOTE]

    but they're not selling as well as they used to - honda have lost
    significant market share to toyota. and the rsx or whatever the
    successor to the integra is, [same civic platform] isn't selling at all!
    if that's what they think, that's the problem!
    but handling /does/ sell!

    if they think they're just going to sell cheap generic crap, they're in
    trouble because toyota can do that better. and frankly, hyundai [etc]
    is breathing hard up their tail pipe as well. they'll also have their
    margins cut to the bone and have no brand loyalty. if they make
    something that people like because it's better, price is less elastic
    /and/ they retain repeat customers. like subaru.

    honda used to play the game /way/ better. there's no reason they can't
    do it again.
    jim beam, Jul 5, 2007
  17. jim beam

    Jim Yanik Guest

    Put a 1998-2001 last generation Prelude next to an Accord coupe,and the
    Accord will be bigger and taller.(and heavier) IMO,significantly different.
    The older 1990 Prelude was much closer to the Accord.
    Then there was that wierd Prelude inbetween them.....

    Even the defunct RSX was sportier than any Accord.
    Jim Yanik, Jul 5, 2007
  18. jim beam

    Jim Yanik Guest

    the RSX is defunct;they stopped making them,ISTR.
    Look at how well the Integra sold. 3dr and 4 dr versions!
    Then Honda redesigned it to the RSX,which was uglier,and it didn't sell.
    the old 1996-2000 Civic hatchback sold very well,and newer versions were
    uglier and didn't sell as well.
    Tuners would rather buy an older Honda and rework it than buy a new Civic.
    Sochiro Honda is no longer around,that's the problem.
    Jim Yanik, Jul 5, 2007
  19. jim beam

    JXStern Guest

    I like the taller small cars, if I want an MGB roadster there's
    already the S2000. I look at the current Porches as a little retro in
    staying so low. The new motors are so much better, a little extra
    wind resistance, even a *little* extra weight, are OK.

    How 'bout this, a new Prelude would make a great new Honda vehicle to
    experiment with low weight technologies, like the Lotusii.


    Civic Si engine, Accord-derived composite chassis, << 2200 pounds,
    maybe 4wd option, << $40k list.

    For Acura, I *still* say put in a 4-liter V8, make it an RL-class
    sedan << 2800 pounds (V8 drivetrain is still gonna be heavy), but at
    that power/weight ratio it would also fly. Probably $60k range. Put
    a few solar cells on the trunk for good luck! :)

    Needless to say, both would get outstanding mileage, for the class.

    .... though I see that Lotus is only listed at 24/29. With Honda
    tuning (and some loss of zoom) I'd think a two-seater like that could
    go 29/36 or better - current Si sedan lists at 23/32 @ 3000 pounds.
    Hmm, oddly enough, the specs are almost the same for the coupe.

    JXStern, Jul 6, 2007
  20. If Honda continued to make the Prelude today, put today's 'lude against
    a 98-01 'lude, and today's car would be bigger and heavier.



    Ever driven a current model V6 Accord coupe w/manual trans?
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jul 6, 2007
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