Using gas with 10% ethanol

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by josesantos, Sep 28, 2003.

  1. josesantos

    josesantos Guest

    I have a 2001 honda accord. Wanted to know if it was ok to use gas
    with 10%ethanol and would there be any long term damaging effects if I
    did that. I asked a dealership in my area and they said it would not
    be a problem. However, want to know expert opinions of the people in
    this group.

    josesantos, Sep 28, 2003
  2. It depends on what the fuel system components are made of. Check the
    manual. Ethanol blended gas is common so it's probably OK. There are
    no long term problems using ethanol blends as long as your fuel system
    is compatible. Generally the milage will drop slightly and the engine
    will produce less soot with Ethanol blends.

    If your manual says Ethanol is OK, don't assume that other alcohols are.
    The heavier alcohols can be very destructive to organic solids.
    Kevin McMurtrie, Sep 28, 2003
  3. josesantos

    QDurham Guest

    There are
    All true. However it may be useful to note that Archer Daniels Midland owns
    about 80% of us corn -- from which alcohol distilled. Further, it takes the
    heat from about 1.5 gallons of alcohol to distill 1 gallon of alcohol. 50%
    net loss. And guess where this energy comes from. Electricity. Which comes
    almost exclusively from burning coal, natural gas, oil -- whatever fossil fuels
    are locally available. High school chemistry

    QDurham, Sep 28, 2003
  4. josesantos

    Bebop Guest

    Is not an opton in some cities. All have 10% ethanol.
    Bebop, Sep 28, 2003
  5. -----------------------

    It doesn't really matter what the 'experts' in this group say, really.
    Your owner's manual is the only source for this answer, 'cuz if you obey
    it's instructions, and something still goes wrong, Honda will have to
    make it good. If you obey the advice of an Internet 'expert', and damage
    your engine, who will testify for you in court.

    There's some really amazing advice dispensed around here. Some of it is
    WAY worse than some of the advice you get from your dealership. Stick
    around and join is in a good laugh. :)

    Just read your manual.


    'Curly Q. Links', Sep 28, 2003
  6. josesantos

    Milleron Guest

    Probably coal, maybe gas. Even if ethanol's production requires more
    energy input than is output, it could still be economical relative to
    gasoline produced from the distillation of expensive crude. I think
    there's more to the equation than you have represented.

    Milleron, Sep 28, 2003
  7. josesantos

    QDurham Guest

    Ron wrote in part:> Even if ethanol's production requires more
    I wonder how refining crude would require more energy than one gets out -- as
    does alcohol. How many BTUs in to get how many BTUs out. First Law of
    Thermodynamics --( OK, maybe 2nd or 3rd.)

    QDurham, Sep 28, 2003
  8. The only "more" to the equation is Mr. Daschle's pork barrel. Ethanol from
    biomass as a vehicle fuel is non-viable by any measure - the scale is all
    wrong. In fact the cheapest way to produce ethanol is from ethylene, IOW
    steam cracking of virgin naphtha which has been distilled from crude
    petroleum... but then that would not fit the ummm, proposed "green" model.

    Rgds, George Macdonald

    "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
    George Macdonald, Sep 29, 2003
  9. josesantos

    Ken Guest

    Honda will make it good IF the damage becomes evident during the warranty
    period. Honda's are supposed to last a long time so most years of ownership
    are AFTER the coverage ends. Who would be able to link the damage to
    ethanol? What are the chances they will offer a free repair on a 7 year old
    Ken, Sep 29, 2003
  10. josesantos

    Milleron Guest

    Who said that "refining crude would require more energy than one gets
    out?" And this situation has nothing to do with any of the Laws of
    Energy in vs. energy out is not the principle in question. It's the
    total cost of producing the final volume of fuel that drives the
    economic process. If it costs more to produce a gallon of ethanol
    that it's worth, do you believe that an enlightened manufacturer would
    continue to produce it?
    Milleron, Sep 30, 2003
  11. Doh? It's kinda simple: if the energy in is more than the energy out the
    process is not viable.
    If he's being subsidized by your tax $$ - YES!!

    Rgds, George Macdonald

    "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
    George Macdonald, Oct 1, 2003
  12. Ethanol blended gasolines need less anti-pollution processing and
    additives than pure petroleum gasolines. That can be the cost benefit
    in areas with strict emissions regulations. MTBE can be extremely
    expensive when you take into account the environmental damaged caused by
    leaking tanks.
    Kevin McMurtrie, Oct 2, 2003
  13. Moot IMO. Even so, it would still be cheaper to produce the ethanol from
    petroleum distillates.
    Oxygenated fuels are a bureaucratic red herring IMO - totally unnecessary
    with today's engine technology - and amount to little more than govt.
    tampering for its own sake. Obviously in countries which do not have an
    excess of useable, fermentable biomass, they cannot even be considered.
    Alcohol as a blending agent also has some serious storage problems which
    incur extra, less well known, costs.

    Rgds, George Macdonald

    "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
    George Macdonald, Oct 2, 2003
  14. josesantos

    Milleron Guest

    Although this logic may apply quite well to the ethanol question, I'm
    not sure it's valid as a generalization. Just because a fuel requires
    more energy to produce than it, in turn, can produce does not
    necessarily mean that it's economically nonviable. If a critical
    process required a special fuel for which there was no substitute, it
    would not matter if production of that fuel were "endothermic." The
    process would still be viable.
    By the way, the proper spelling of Homer Simpson's favorite
    exclamation is "D'oh." ;-) (
    Point taken. I'd like to learn more about this. Thanks for the info.

    Milleron, Oct 5, 2003
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