Timing chains in a Honda??????

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null_pointer

I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
about this???
 
Yes, many newer Honda engines use timing chains. As far as I know, all
the i-VTEC engines use chains rather than belts.
 
"[email protected]"
I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
about this???
Click to expand...

I don't have any repair manuals for the Element and Acura RSX, however, I
just checked a repair manual for the 1998 and 1999 Honda Accord. It has a
timing belt.
 
The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use timing
chains.
 
"Sean said:
The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use timing
chains.
Click to expand...

Which leads to another question
Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work better?
 
This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
belt would not be reliable enough.

In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
 
Randolph <[email protected]> said:
This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
belt would not be reliable enough.

In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. You are probably right. I have a VTEC engine in my
1999 Honda Accord EX. What's the difference between a VTEC engine and a
i-VTEC engine?
 
Tom said:
Thanks for the info. You are probably right. I have a VTEC engine in my
1999 Honda Accord EX. What's the difference between a VTEC engine and a
i-VTEC engine?
Click to expand...

On i-VTEC engines there is the added feature (compared with regular
VTEC) that the cam shaft can be advanced and retarded with respect to
the cam shaft sprocket. Thus the valve *timing* can be changed
continuously. With VTEC you only change between two or three fixed cam
profiles. Each of the profiles have different lift and different timing,
but you can only select one profile or the other (or the third), you can
not get anything in-between those fixed profiles.
 
Which leads to another question
Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work better?
Click to expand...

Chains are more durable. When Honda redesigned their engines (long
overdue IMHO) they took the opportunity to make several improvements,
including the use of chains to reduce maintenance costs. No more
mechanical distributor, either.

Happy Motoring

GMW
 
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Randolph said:
This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
belt would not be reliable enough.
Click to expand...

Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
service a chain.
In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
Click to expand...

Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
better?



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I thought a serpentine belt is the external belt running the water
pump, alternator, A/C, etc. The timing belt is internal and runs the
cams et al.

Right? Wrong?
 
TL said:
I thought a serpentine belt is the external belt running the water
pump, alternator, A/C, etc. The timing belt is internal and runs the
cams et al.

Right? Wrong?
Right.
Click to expand...
 
timeing chains arnt new to honda as a company, their CBX motercycles
(inline 6) had a timeing chain in the center of the block
 
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Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
service a chain.


Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
Click to expand...
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
 
Correct. A serpentine belt is one that snakes (serpent = snake) around
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
 
Because they started working with GM.


Tom Wilson said:
Which leads to another question
Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work
Click to expand...
better?
 
Aron said:
And what happens when you rev the hell out of a chain?
Click to expand...

///snipped for brevity///

It goes around and around the sprockets - only much more quickly!

Dave D
 
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