They want to turn my rotors

Hi,
My '03 Accord EX has 35K mi., so I asked my local service center to
check the brake pads when they were changing oil.
They found (and showed me) about 10% remaining on the RF and 40% on
the LF. Rears were fine. They suggested replacing the pads and
TURNING the ROTORS. They say that one ALWAYS wants the rotors
resurfaced and that they don't charge any more whether or not that's
done along with pad replacement. I go to this place because they've
demonstrated their honesty to me on several occasions.

I know this question has been asked and answered before, but I'm
hoping for an up-to-the-minute opinion from you experts.

1 -- If the rotors do not appear scored, should they be resurfaced the
first time the brakes are redone?

2 -- The car drives, handles, and brakes perfectly. Is there any
reason for concern about the uneven wear of the front pads?

Thanks very much.


Ron

 

I loathe this kind of reasoning. One does not "always" want
the rotors resurfaced. Resurfacing reduces their thickness,
which means heat dissipation is worse, and the life of the
rotors is reduced. Seems like peopel have more problems, not
less, after resurfacing rotors, as oppposed to leaving them
be.

One of the manual specifications for rotors is a certain
minimum thickness. After reaching this thickness, the rotors
have to be replaced. They're bringing rotors closer to this
and so also shortening their lives.

I don't know how much questioning you want to try to do of
these guys, but if you think they'll talk honestly to you,
ask them whether they checked the rotor thickness. If it's
uneven, then that might be a reason to resurface the rotors.
Similarly, if there are indications the rotors are warped,
that might be a reason to resurface (or replace) as well.

If they won't discuss something as simple as rotor
thickness, go to another shop.

You can google and I bet get a lot of good information from
the internet on this as well.

pads?

Could be a lot of things. A good brake system flush might
solve it. It bears watching but I wouldn't fear for my
safety in such a car at this point.

Is the car steering okay? Are the tire pressures checked
every two weeks, especially when the seasons change? Are the
tires wearing evenly?

Lots of little stuff to watch.

 

Do not know if this is of any value, but does not some re-surfacing remove
the glaze on the pads ? When I replace pads, I do not necessarily
re-surface, but I do use a sandpaper pad and give the rotors a quick "quasi
re-surface". Maybe not necessary at all, who knows.

 

i wouldnt, and never have. they want to because it eliminates the
*possibility* there might be some noise. if theyre using OEM honda brake
pads, cleaning the stuff that needs to be cleaned, and doing an
otherwise thorough job it shouldnt be an issue

not necessarily. most of the cars ive changed pads on dont wear
completely evenly from one side to the other, or even from one side of
the caliper to the other.

 

Milleron said:
"They say that one ALWAYS wants the rotors
resurfaced and that they don't charge any more whether or not that's
done along with pad replacement. I go to this place because they've
demonstrated their honesty to me on several occasions."

Years ago went with a friend to drop off his BMW - needed rear brake
pads. The Hans und Fritz act behind the service counter said something
similiar - I unloaded on these crooks. Ended up replacing the rotors
for my friend.

You never ever turn a rotor unless it is hopelessly warped or grooved.
These crooks at the stealers are doing harm when they do this. I have
maintained several accords for something approaching 700K now - never
had to have any rotors turned - on one occasion had to retorque the lug
nuts because the apes in a tire place overtorqued the lug bolts and
warped the rotors - retorquing them properly took most of the braking
shimmy out.

If this dealer or stealer as I call people like this are willing to
pull this trick - beware - one of the fav stealer tricks is to cut CV
boots - that is a pricey repair. When walking through dealerships I
always keep a very tight grip on my wallet - have got a couple of the
sales sharks to bite - tell them I always hold on to my waller in high
crime areas.

Yeah there are good dealers - know a couple of small town ones that are
good people but find someplace else to work on your honda - no telling
what tricks this crowd will pull. Oh would I like to have it out with
these clowns.

 

There may have been problems with your original pads/rotors (hi/lo
spots, excessive gooving, etc). Did you ask for specific details?
Since you pads were unevenly worn, it's likely your rotors are, also.
You don't want to be putting new pads on unevenly worn rotors. Don't
forget you're dealing with the brakes, your last line of defense
between you and a hard place. Turning the rotors shouldn't cost that
much. Do you really want to cut corners?

nb

 

notbod said:
"There may have been problems with your original pads/rotors (hi/lo
spots, excessive gooving, etc). Did you ask for specific details?
Since you pads were unevenly worn, it's likely your rotors are, also.
You don't want to be putting new pads on unevenly worn rotors. Don't
forget you're dealing with the brakes, your last line of defense
between you and a hard place. Turning the rotors shouldn't cost that
much. Do you really want to cut corners? "{

It is rare that pads on the same rotor wear evenly and my left front
pads seem to always wear out before the right side does. What are
unevenly worn rotors - don't exist - grooved, warped or scored - no way
could this happen on a vehicle with only 35K on it and rotors not dug
into by worn out pads.

Never ever turn rotors unless they have big problems - that is unless
you are a chiseling dealer trying to lighten your customers wallets.

 

I don't want to cut corners on my brake jobs but I don't want to screw
up the rotors by resurfacing them either. Not resurfacing the rotors
will not lead to any catastrophic brake failures. If the rotors are
worn, scarred, corroded or severely warped, then replace them.

If the pads are truly wearing unevenly, the place to start is by
cleaning and inspecting the calipers and sliding surfaces. Usually
just cleaning and lubricating them will solve the problem. Only
exception is if the pistons are not moving freely in the cylinders.
Then rebuilding/replacing the calipers is in order.

 

at only 35k, the /real/ probability of needing the rotors skimmed is
between "slim" and "zero". only if there is a fault will this be
necessary, and even then, i'd prefer replacement over skimming. if
skimming is not done right, and in my experience it often isn't, it can
introduce more problems than it is supposed to solve.

if you're getting uneven wear, i'd check the caliper operation. if
you're in the rust belt, it's possible that the calipers need servicing
at this mileage, in which case, do it yourself. if you're not
confident, sign up for an evening class at your local community college.
otherwise, check out tegger's excellent "how-to" on his web site.

for the time being, it's safe to replace the pads and keep driving until
you've done your course. replace the pads yourself - it's /real/ easy
if you follow the procedure in the book.

 

If it's aHonda Dealer, I would not be surprised. When I took my new 2004
Pilot into my Honda dealer for an oil change, they offered to "clean" the
brakes for only $100 extra. The odometer read only about 8000 miles (and
those were probably about 90 % highway miles, i.e., the brakes had not been
used much). I told them "no thanks". I have heard similar stories from
other Honda owners, where the dealer performs unnecessary service. Too bad
because I think Honda makes great vehicles, but their dealers are out to
take all the money they can get from the owners.
Angus

 

not necessarily, unless the rotors are being made out of aluminum these
days.

never heard that one before.

think about the chiiiiiiildren! you might hit a baby!

 

with proper preventive maintenance, the dealer should never see you again.

 

Are your brains made out of cotton balls?

not my problem

uhmm, yeah. You think that's funny?

nb

 

wrote:
re notbob's claim that failing to turn rotors at every pad
change is "cutting corners":

It's not funny, but it makes the point.

I too think it's extremely misleading to assert that a
failure to resurface rotors at every brake pad change is
"cutting corners."

The chances of a catastrophic failure /suddenly/ occuring
because the rotors weren't turned after 35k miles is, ISTM,
a heckuva lot less than something like driver inattention
causing an accident. It's so small, in my estimation, that
we may as well factor in the effects of turning the rotors
at every brake pad change and so making them so thin that
they don't dissipate heat correctly and warp prematurely.
That too increases the chances of an accident.

Elle
Original owner, 1991 Civic, 172k miles, never had the rotors
refinished. The thickness is well above spec. Runout and
evenness are probably off. Brakes work fine. One rotor has a
score on it. I brake a lot with the engine and otherwise see
the brakes as "workhorses."

 

dissenting opinion here --

Often on this NG, people vigorously defend Honda engineering and design
and admonish posters to read the manual and follow factory
recommendations for maintenance. When Honda manufactures a new car it
uses new freshly turned rotors and new brake pads. The perfect brake
job would be to replace everything to the way it was brand new, ie. new
rotors for the new pads. Second choice would be to resurface the rotors
so that they are as good as new.

If you place a new pad on a new or freshly turned rotor you will notice
that they will mate up with no preceivable gap (yes there will be a
microscopic gap which will be largely gone in the first 400 miles of
careful breakin time). By the time a pad is worn out the rotor will be
both glazed and may be worn slightly. There will often be a preceivable
gap between a new pad and a used rotor. The new pads have to wear
first to conform to the high spots on the irregular surface of the used
rotor. A new pad will slide easily over a glazed rotor but on a turned
rotor it will feel as though it is sticking - in other words you can
feel the friction (friction is a good thing when braking).

I have put new pads on without turning the rotors and have not had a
problem, but I am not fooling myself into thinking that this is a first
class brake job or that the new pads are likely to last as long as the
first ones did, or even that stopping power is fully 100% of what it was
designed to be.

It is unfair to call anyone a crook who is advising you to do a first
class job and keeping your car up to the specs the engineers set for it.
The cost of turning a rotor is not much, in fact the cost of a rotor
is not much. Try to be aware of the difference between "good enough"
and "perfect". Good shops want to stand behind their work - it's hard
to do "good enough" work and stand behind it.

 

is fully 100% of what it was

That's why when I have been told to turn the rotors, I have asked that
they be replaced instead. Many mechanics balk at this suggestion,
because it means more effort, though not much more time, from them, for
a pretty low-cost part (actually cheaper than the pads, per wheel).

--Gene

 

It steers perfectly. The wheels have been balanced and rotated per
the service manual. I don't check the pressures twice a month, but
I've never found a difference of more than 1-2 psi between the two
front tires. I think I do a pretty good job of keeping them about 2-3
psi over spec and equal to each other.


Ron

 

This isn't a Honda dealer. I didn't want to mention any specific
names, but it's a service center with the brand name of a tire over
the door.

Ron

 

I certainly don't want to cut corners. As I said, this place doesn't
charge any more for including the rotor job, so it wasn't as though it
was going to cost me any more. I saw the rotors. They looked fine
to my untrained eye. I ask the question not because I wanted to save
money or cut a corner but because I thought I recalled experts here
advising against turning rotors just as a matter of course.

Ron

 

Nonsense! Have 'em turned.

nb