In a post from yesterday about buying a new car I am comparing the price of the Hybrid and I make the assumption that there is a $2100 tax credit. But in some reading it sounds like the credit phases out and expires after a certain amount of cars. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml How can I definitively find out whether the tax credit is still $2100? The dealer says he doesn't know. It makes it a bit easier to rationalize the extra cost of the car with that $2100 credit and might effect the decision. \Samson
If you keep the vehicle more than a couple years you may need that $2,100 to replace the batteries and electronics after they wear out. Earle
That would be under warranty for 10 years/150k miles in several states using the "California" package, 8/80 across the US. The Prius and Escape are harder on batteries, and they are going over 150K in taxi service. The Civic batteries might outlast the car.
Also don't forget about the AMT trap. If you end up being subject to AMT, you may not get any tax deduction. The way AMT rules are written, it is catching more and more people evey year. I bought a Hondad Accord Hybrid last year and this was the first time I found myself subject to AMT. I got $0 of the promised $1300 federal tax credit. Fortunately Colorado gives me $3200 tax credit on state taxes (no strings attached). Nevertheless I am enjoying the car. So I won't complain too much about the imaginary federal tax credit. ==================================================================== Khalid khalid gonehiking org
Batteries guaranteed for 8 years and 80K. In CA and some other states, it's 10/100. I see gas is up to $3.60 near me.
The battery probably won't wear out for 10 years. Where do you come up with "a couple of years" for the traction battery to wear out? Oh, I get it--nowhere. You just make shit up. Hey, can I play? Let's see now....how was that gay nude wrestling competition you were in?
It's almost that high here. 80k is just broken in on a Honda, admit it. My '02 HX has 83k, looks like new, runs like a top, and gets 45 mpg. So far, major repairs have been a timing belt and a door skin. For me to trade in on relatively new untested technology at this point would be idiocy. I see a '92 VX with 124k in the paper for $3,200, where the seller claims 55 mpg. I think that's the EPA rating it had when new. Why did they stop making a perfectly good 55 mpg car, and then a perfectly good 45 mpg car, and replace them with a similar performing model, but costing more to manufacture? No idea, and I am not into conspiracy theories, but the Emperor's New Clothes story comes to mind. "Batteries are good, we are wasting so much energy going downhill..." I wonder if anyone even did the math. According to Nevada State Patrol, the HX is capable of 127 mph too. I wasn't there, but I paid the fine. Another thing about hybrids. In the winter, when you want heat, and you are driving in the city, the engine comes on with the battery fully charged just to warm your toes and windshield. Mpg plummets to about 20, just like my Jeep. Saludos, Earle
I agree. But if you are buying a new car anyway and are an early-adopter... The problem is that all these new cars have a weight control problem. The heaviest Civic models are within about 100 pounds of the old Volvo 240. At the same time, people expect them to be quick. The Civic Hybrid has a 110 hp engine, about the same as my G1 Integra. The Integra weighed 500 lbs less and I don't think I ever got 30 mpg with it, although I don't recall ever trying either ;-) A story there, no doubt. Frankly, I would have to see that to believe it. I'm sure winter mileage drops more than a conventional car, but I would be very surprised if it dropped to 20. At it's worst, this is a small car with a 1.3L engine.
Sorry I don't let her drive it anymore. There were two passengers and a pile of luggage in the car too. The thing I don't get, is that they invest in this elaborate, expensive hybrid technology, make the engine smaller and the car heavier and scarcely change the fuel mileage, and people buy into it. Earle
The engine in the Honda hybrid runs almost any time the car is moving. Winter makes no difference with that. In order for lack of heat to cause the engine in the Civic to start from an idle stop... I don't think it does, but I've never tested that. I don't recall it ever starting unexpectedly. Idle stop does not work if the defroster is on, so the engine will run when the car is stopped, but it should still get better MPG under any conditions than the 20MPG your Jeep gets on the highway. In order to drive the MPG on a Honda Civic Hybrid to the 20's, you'd have to be stopped more than moving, with the engine idling, for a very long time.
What mileage do you get? I went like 149 miles in my Civic HX, and I put a little over three gallons in it. I live in the mountains too. Earle
"like 149" and "a little over 3 gallons" might be 42mpg. Anything less than several repeated trips of full tanks of gas doesn't really mean much. What do you get over 1000 miles? For the life of the car? I get around 60mpg at 50 mph on rural roads. On Interstate 5 at 80 mph with the A/C on, 42 mpg. Typical freeway travel is 50-52; overall around here, no freeways, plenty of hills, 45-47mpg. The Civic HX is only a two door, so I wasn't interested in that body. Do you have a 5 speed or the CVT automatic? The CVT is only rated at 40mpg highway in 2004.
Manual. It looks like the same ball park, but you're doing better at 60 than I am. I get better than my neighbors with Subarus anyway. I have a diary, but the price hasn't gotten high enough to count pennies, just yet. 60 mpg at 50 isn't bad, but I wonder if the regenerative braking in the mountains really works. I have to go up, and down, and up, and down to get to the grocery store 50 miles away. Cheers, Earle
That was 145 miles, 3.145 gallons for 46.1 mpg. The trip was from Aztec, NM to Durango, CO to Silverton, CO and back to Durango. Aztec is at about 6,000 feet of altitude, Durango is 7,000 something, and Silverton is 9,138. I crossed four mountain passes over 10,000 feet, well I crossed two of them twice. That's not too shabby. A considerable amount of this time was spent going downhill. I wonder how the regenerative braking and the weight of the batteries affects all that. One also has to consider the South Park factor. With the HX I don't feel a compulsion to move to San Francisco and I don't enjoy the smell of my own farts. If you don't watch Comedy Central you won't get this one. Cheers, Earle
Up and down will regen fine. The battery tends to "fill" on long grades, and the regen no longer works, so you are left with just compression braking (deliberately disabled by idle-cylinder VTEC) and brakes, but it doesn't take much acceleration to get the regen working again. I tend to hold speed without brakes better than most cars on downslopes of a few miles. I've heard, and believe it would be true for me, that Civic hybrids with the CVT get better mileage than the 5 speeds, because people don't keep the RPM low enough with the manual transmission. 60mph is about 2100 RPM. Accelerating casually from 0-30 in the city the engine might not exceed 1500RPM. No lugging.
One fillup of 3 gallons has too much room for operator error or thermal differences. I got 28MPG in my Mazda Rx-2 once. 160 miles, 5.7 gallons. It never happened again, although I am _sure_ I did that fillup correctly .... or not. I watch Comedy Central, but I missed that show.
