Scott Burns on Detroit

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Dillon Pyron, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Dillon Pyron

    Dillon Pyron Guest

    If you don't read Scott Burns, you should. His column today has a
    very memorable line. He's talking about various things that he
    predicts are going to happen. He also says that most of the economic
    soothsayers are so far behind it's outrageous. For instance, the most
    recent issue of Business Week has on article on "The New Frugality".
    He let his subscription expire in mid 2008 as a frugality measure.

    Well, here's the quote:

    "Cerberus, which already owns Chrylser, will take over GM and Ford.
    This will happen beacus it's the only poetic thing to do.

    After all, if the gates of hell ae guarded by a three-headed dog named
    Cerberus, what better name could we have for the three-headed dog that
    guards the gates of Detroit?"

    - dillon I am not invalid

    When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
    Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
    will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
    matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.
    Dillon Pyron, Jan 11, 2009
  2. Dillon Pyron

    Gosi Guest

    So Cerberus is another name for Bush?
    Gosi, Jan 11, 2009
  3. Dillon Pyron

    Canuck57 Guest

    I can see GM & Chysler merging. Hit chapter 11 in a packaged way, smash
    them together and get some real managment and more realistic union
    contracts. Downsize the overhead and lean up, with more intense and real
    automation efforts.

    I don't think GM is going to die, in fact a renewed GM through chapter 11
    will be competative and sustainable. But the GM CEO and executive need to
    be repalced. I saw the letter sent to suppliers from the GM CEO, what a
    joke. Proof positive this is organized extortion of the tax payer.

    But Ford? Not sure unless the Ford Family gives up control. My guess is
    not. Ford is in the best shape of the three and if they can just whack
    costs down some more and keep the production of quality up doing it they
    just might make it! But a lot of ifs, but Ford has a better idea, don't
    bilk your customers via the tax system. They are off to a good start.
    Canuck57, Jan 12, 2009
  4. Dillon Pyron

    Canuck57 Guest

    So Cerberus is another name for Bush?
    Actually, Carlyle is another name for Bush and Bin Laden. Bush and Osama's
    Saudi/Muslim brother have ties with Carlyle, the ones that spun off Alliston
    transmission for billions of profits in the process of striping GMs good
    assets. It is known this has been going on for years, package GM for
    welfare. Just like Chrysler Cerberus had $11B cash at the end of October
    that no one can find these days.
    GMC - Government Motors Corruption
    Where profit comes from tax payers

    GMAC - Government Money Assisted Corruption
    Money for Free!
    Canuck57, Jan 12, 2009
  5. Maybe this will help:

    Michael Pardee, Jan 12, 2009
  6. Dillon Pyron

    Dillon Pyron Guest

    Lose a couple of duplicate lines. Pontiac and Chevy are almost
    identical in both lines and prices. Take the trucks out of Chevy and
    put them in GMC. But they have to keep Chevy, in some sort or
    fashion. Chevrolet IS GM to most people.

    As far as Chrysler is concerned, they're dead meat.
    Replaced? As in taken behind the building and shot?
    Another case for losing a product line. Shut down Mercury. It's
    become just a kind of upper end Ford. In fact, I'm willing to bet the
    two pull customers from each other. With the high expenses of running
    two companies, that's got to hurt both of their bottom lines.

    One thing I see happening in the event of chapter 11. NASCAR dies.
    The first thing a judge would say is "lose the racing."

    - dillon I am not invalid

    When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
    Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
    will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
    matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.
    Dillon Pyron, Jan 12, 2009
  7. Dillon Pyron

    Mike Marlow Guest

    Pontiac and Chevy are more dissimilar than similar. Pontiac may end up
    going, but that would be a shame. The product line is far superior to the
    Chevy lineup in terms of design, fit and finish, etc.

    A perfectly worthwhile suggestion in my opinion.

    I'm not so sure about that at all. Marketing is a recognized requirement,
    and NASCAR fills that bill nicely for the motor companies. GM is already
    showing that they are trimming financial support of some things NASCAR, but
    I don't believe you'd see it declared that they must pull out of racing.
    Mike Marlow, Jan 12, 2009
  8. Dillon Pyron

    Canuck57 Guest

    True. I have used Chevy Nova motor parts in a Pontiac Ventura just because
    they were cheaper. Never understood why the inefficiency of two brands for
    one vehicle existed. To me, Chev is GM is CMC is Buick is Pontiac is ...
    Yep. Only questin is how will they be picked apart.
    I would agree. Just saw a letter the GM CEO sent to suppliers asking for
    whining support for government bailout. Pathetic fool does not have a
    freaking clue on how to run a business. Clueless.
    Yep. No reason really to have this duplicated overhead. Just waste.
    Probably would be cheaper to put Mercury chrome on a Ford and forget the
    overhead of Mercury. One thing I do like about Japanese is that something
    silly like a tach is not an option, everyone gets one approach.
    Hey, if you are losing money cut what isn't keeping you in business.
    Canuck57, Jan 12, 2009
  9. Dillon Pyron

    Mike Marlow Guest

    When it comes to the truck lines, I would agree. There is very little
    difference between a Chevy truck and a GMC. Within the car lines however,
    there is significant difference. Models share a common platform but that
    serves the economy reducing parts - that's why you can use Chevy parts on a
    Pontiac. That's a good thing. The models are not simple re-badging of the
    same vehicle as is more the case in the truck lines. Each of those
    divisions have long appealed to different market segments - and did so
    successfully for quite a long time. As that advantage began to fail,
    divisions were cut - ala Oldsmobile (a mistake in many ways if one
    considers the engineering that came out of the Olds division). Maybe it is
    time to trim more, or better said - to continue trimming, but not because
    of multiple brands that offer to differing market segments, but in the name
    of building better cars that simply offer more in the base package.

    I generally stayed away from Chevy cars because they didn't stack up well
    against their Buick, Olds and Pontiac counterparts. Cheaper, clunkier,
    less comfortable cars. Raise the bar for what Chevy's are and you could
    easily eliminate a product line. Just quit offering a line of car with
    shitty seats, poor noise insulation, etc. What you'll end up with is Chevy
    cars being the line that is dropped and Pontiac or Buick taking on the
    Chevy name.
    Mike Marlow, Jan 13, 2009
  10. Dillon Pyron

    Canuck57 Guest

    When it comes to creature features, I agree. But the motors, frame,
    transmissions, steering, rad etc. is all the same. Usually it is stuff like
    better seats, mirrors, the add on stuff. This branding though has a
    backlash in that do I buy a cheqp Chev or a Buick? The overhead to
    differentiate these brands must be amazing, the complexity... why not do it
    like the other companies, 2 models, not many dealer options? And many of
    these items are $10 at design/assembly items.

    Most of us know, once you say options, you are saying $5,000 or $10,000
    extra. It is why I don't even look at them any more. If the package I am
    looking at does not have what I want in the price I see, I move on. And no,
    there are some features I like that disqualify vehicles immediately.
    Temperature control for example. Electronic dial a temp I can't believe
    costs much if anything more than some klunky mechanical manual thing. I
    also consider it a safety feature as I don't want to putz with levers when I
    drive just to be comfortable and alert.

    Sometimes I wonder if they option themselves to death. When looking at a
    brand like Honda or Toyota it is much easier to price compare and move on.
    While one might say GM is less expensive, I have yet to see one comparably
    compared to the competition that wasn't more expensive. For example, Honda
    a tach is in every one, GM it is an option. Ditto say a 3 speed auto versus
    4 or 5 speed auto. The "cheapness" starts to be apparent when looking at it
    this way.
    Canuck57, Jan 13, 2009
  11. Dillon Pyron

    Mike Marlow Guest

    That's what the common platform is all about and that's where the economy
    of the build comes from. Though... not all of those parts are really so
    common. The same platform in a Pontiac will not necessarily offer the same
    engine as its Chevy counterpart. Likewise steering. There are more
    differences than you may realize. Then of course, there's the ECM, BCM,
    etc. differences between brands. These are differences that make... well,
    a lot of difference.
    Agree to some extent. But those parts like ECM and BCM are not simple add
    ons. They make the difference in performance as well. Then of course,
    there is sound deadening, etc. And yes - seats. A big one in my opinion.
    All of this adds up to why I feel Chevy is the junk brand of GM, and they
    could not just drop every other brand and build Chevys.

    I agree that the options packages are rediculous. I wouldn't reduce things
    as much as you suggest, but I'd be willing to meet you in the middle if I
    were ever offered the job of CEO.
    No... more like $500. Still too much for what you get in those packages.

    I again, won't agree with the "cheapness" part of this, but I will agree
    with the unnecessarily complex options packages.
    Mike Marlow, Jan 14, 2009
  12. Dillon Pyron

    Dillon Pyron Guest

    Most of my friends think the Poncho F bodies are (were) far superior
    to the Chevy.
    Well, we've had yet another team merge with someone, cutting at least
    one more car out of the equation. It's beginning to look like the
    2007 Indy Recking League.

    - dillon I am not invalid

    When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
    Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
    will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
    matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.
    Dillon Pyron, Jan 15, 2009
  13. Dillon Pyron

    Derek Gee Guest

    More uninformed speculation. Mercury pulls more female customers, and it
    costs very little to gussy up a Ford and sell it for a couple of grand more.
    This boosts the plant volumes and keeps traffic flowing into the L-M

    There's a very good case for keeping Mercury, but the stampede of so-called
    "analysts" has them convinced they need to get rid of it. That's BS. GM
    killed off Oldsmobile, paid barge loads of money to buy off the dealer body,
    and the Olds customers didn't migrate to other GM brands - they just left

    Derek Gee, Jan 21, 2009
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