Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord

[hls]

Who gives a **** about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota newsgroup. Get the **** out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of authority?

 

[Steve (2)]

Who gives a **** about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota newsgroup. Get the **** out.

One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
That right there is FUNNY.

 

[Sharx35]

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

 

[Sharx35]

One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
That right there is FUNNY.

In these parts, Hondas are the favorite vehicles of Asian gang members.

 

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Who gives a **** about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota newsgroup.

Ah. Toyota ricemobiles only.

Gotcha.

 

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

....says the ricemobile driver Sharx.

 

[Timothy J. Lee]

How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...

New cars sometimes get damaged and sent to local auto body repair shops for repair.

 

[dsi1]

New cars sometimes get damaged and sent to local auto body repair shops for repair.

That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the automobile industry.

 

[jim beam]

Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.

Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.

With my own cars in my own garage, I just use my air wrench because I have a very good feel for the correct torque with that wrench at the air line pressure setting I run. Every so often I check myself with a torque wrench and I'm never off by more than a couple of ft-lb. But you can't do that in a shop where you grab a different air wrench every time or you change a tire. Also most of my cars are old enough to be rear-drives with integral hub-rotor assemblies instead of "top hat" rotors that slide over the wheel studs like FWD cars. They are far less sensitive to over-torquing because the hub/rotor assembly is so much beefier and doesn't have an alignment issue if you torque one stud/nut down too hard before the other side gets torqued.

indeed - one of the reasons the heavier more powerful accord didn't transition to that style of disk for years after the civic did.

 

[jim beam]

That brake rotors don't warp is an interesting idea that I've not heard before. What happens to me is that heavy braking, such as when slowing down at the bottom of a hill, will tend to cause an oscillating feedback at the steering wheel.

classic symptoms. google the honda groups for past discussion and my experience before and after wheel shop work.

Hopefully, you're right and I've been seriously misinformed, after all, it's cheaper to wire-brush wheel hubs than to machine them. Will try this - thanks!

use a flat scraper. don't forget the inside of the wheels and the antiseize. and don't use too much, just a little to color the surface where the disk and wheel touch only.

 

[jim beam]

Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.

but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them.

I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp can be a real issue.

the symptoms are a real issue. it's caused by elastic distortion [as opposed to permanent warping] of the hub interface and incorrect torque. if the interface is sticky because of rust, the wheel doesn't seat completely flat, and so when incorrect torque is applied, differential stress on a modern lightweight hub causes it to be sprung slightly off center. if you remove, clean and slightly lube the interface, it seats square and "warped" disks are magically square again. which is of course why you can remove a "warped" disk and put a micrometer on it to find it perfectly flat.

There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that can occur.

or crud patches on the disk, say from prior greasy fingerprints.

 

[Ashton Crusher]

That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the automobile industry.

My Dad left one of his rear doors open on his car and backed out of his garage. The door caught the side of the garage and got pulled out past the normal open position. the door was damaged to the point of needing to be reskinned. Instead of fixing it (estimate was $2800) he traded it in on a new one. The dealer fixed it but of course since it's done by their own shop and not thru insurance there is no record. When we looked at the ad they ran that had the car in it they had the carfax report which highlights "No accident history" . I'm sure the same happens on new cars that get damaged in transit or on the lot.

 

[Brian Smith]

That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the automobile industry.

It's hardly a secret.

 

[dsi1]

It's hardly a secret.

In what way is this not a secret? Do cars typically get into accidents on the way to the dealer? How many new cars have to have body repairs done? If everybody knew this, wouldn't all buyers be checking new cars for collision damage and bodywork? Are they doing this?

If might not be a secret to you if you're in the new car sales business. If it is true, I would guess that the new car dealers would want to keep that knowledge away from the general public - that's my definition of dirty-little secret.

 

[Brian Smith]

In what way is this not a secret? Do cars typically get into accidents on the way to the dealer? How many new cars have to have body repairs done? If everybody knew this, wouldn't all buyers be checking new cars for collision damage and bodywork? Are they doing this?

As the vehicles are loaded and unloaded off the ships and rail cars bumps and dings occur in the natural course of that movement. The number would vary depending on the season, slippery conditions would obviously lead to an increase in damage. Note that I am taking about minor collisions that result in small amounts of damage to the vehicle(s), although sometime fenders, doors and bumpers have to be replaced and painted. That's why Autoports have their own body shops. Smart shoppers realize that this is possible and check their potential new vehicle over carefully before accepting delivery.

If might not be a secret to you if you're in the new car sales business. If it is true, I would guess that the new car dealers would want to keep that knowledge away from the general public - that's my definition of dirty-little secret.

I don't work in the automotive industry, I am not a novice when it comes to the car purchasing game. It doesn't take long to drive past a car lot and see vehicles being bumped by the car lot jockeys. Again, it's not a secret any more than the sun rises in the east is one. :^)

 

[hls]

but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them.

I have seen it happen rather frequently.

I have gotten discs cherry red before when they didnt warp. And I have had them warp on the vehicle within a month or two of having them rotated when no severe overheating was evident.

The rotation didnt cause the problem directly. But the normal heating of the rotor disc, being quenched with rain water perhaps, coupled with the use of impact wrenches to hammer the lug nuts on seem to be the factors that cause this.

When you can measure the warp, either on the car or on the brake lathe, then you HAVE warp.

I fully agree that corrosion, dirt, etc can cause problems with out of planar rotation. When the disc rotates out of plane, it does not cause the same sort of pulsation that is noted with width variation of the rotor occurs.

Bottom line, IMO, it is a little more complicated problem that a lot of people suspect. To get the best results, the mechanic or home mechanic needs to understand the various factors that are happening., and needs to be careful how he or she remediates those factors.

 

[hls]

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

I dont drive a Honda, but have every right to post here if I wish, and I WILL if I wish, psycho.

 

[jim beam]

I have seen it happen rather frequently.

you've seen the symptoms of the braking problem, but i'll bet you haven't seen [or measured] actual disk warpage.

I have gotten discs cherry red before when they didnt warp. And I have had them warp on the vehicle within a month or two of having them rotated when no severe overheating was evident.

precisely my point!

The rotation didnt cause the problem directly. But the normal heating of the rotor disc, being quenched with rain water perhaps, coupled with the use of impact wrenches to hammer the lug nuts on seem to be the factors that cause this.

latter, not the former.

When you can measure the warp, either on the car or on the brake lathe, then you HAVE warp.

indeed, but it's rare. accurate measurement is rare too.

I fully agree that corrosion, dirt, etc can cause problems with out of planar rotation. When the disc rotates out of plane, it does not cause the same sort of pulsation that is noted with width variation of the rotor occurs.

with single piston calipers, it's almost impossible to tell the difference.

Bottom line, IMO, it is a little more complicated problem that a lot of people suspect. To get the best results, the mechanic or home mechanic needs to understand the various factors that are happening., and needs to be careful how he or she remediates those factors.

indeed. that is why i'm taking the time to write about what causes and fixes the problem. sure, you can replace the disks, a shop favorite, and it works because the new disk surface is clean! but skimmed disks rarely work because the disk is not cleaned.

bottom line - i have cured "warped" rotors on multiple cars multiple times as i describe. most times i've taken a car to tire shop, i have this problem as i drive home. i re-seat [as described] and re-torque when i get home, problem disappears. that simply couldn't happen with a genuinely warped disk.

 

[hls]

but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them.

By the way, the following link to Babcock is good reading for the learning amateur for essentially any disc braked car..

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Article/46342/rotor_runout_check_list.aspx

 

[Jeff Strickland]

I dont drive a Honda, but have every right to post here if I wish, and I WILL if I wish, psycho.

You'll derive much more satisfaction if you Block Sharx.

He seldom adds anything beyond poorly chosen and worn out profanity. He has hit a couple of homeruns, I'll give him that. But the strikeouts out number the good hits by a very wide margin. Nobody would remember Babe Ruth if the only hit he got was the one where he pointed to the outfield fence on a full count. That's pretty much Sharx's profile ...

Having said all of that, I can't help but wonder why none of the Honda forums are included in your crosspost.