protectionist b.s.

well apparently you haven't bothered to check out the competition. and
you haven't lifted the lid on quality either.

breaking? or braking?

1. the fundamental problem with your position is swallowing the red
herring that there is a "problem" with toyota. if there's a "problem"
with toyota, why are we not also hearing about the much more common
problems with frod and bmw? their failures outnumber toyota's >100:1.

2. "the likes of me" know a little about engineering and q.c. why "the
likes of you" buy unreliable, poor handling, gas guzzling cars for the
same price as a better japanese vehicle defeats all logic.

3. if your argument is that of xenophobic flag flying, you will
doubtless be disappointed to learn how underinformed you are: gm are the
largest "outsourcers" of component manufacture in the industry - keeping
gm alive gives jobs primarily to chinese component manufacturers, not
american ones.

 

because it would be a waste of money - the japanese don't buy crappy
american cars.

there are no restrictions against american brands in south america,
thailand, the philippines, australia, south africa, [etc.] why do
japanese brands outsell american in those markets?

they only sell in the domestic market - nobody else buys them. and out
junkyards are /full/ of domestics that are only 10 years old.

no so with the rest of the global markets buddy, and our product line
sucks - that's why it doesn't sell.

you must live in some podunk rural community. in the cities, where the
volume is, it's all japanese and european.

you need to lift the hood on a few cars in a junk yard - the quality
differences between japanese and domestic stand out a mile.

no, it exposes the hysterical bullshit lie about so-called prius
"braking problems"

so help a poor old bullshitting retard out - cite your sources. your
explanation of why frod manages to escape recalls for fatal design flaws
that have killed hundreds would be good too.

 

Who cares? Why is it so important that they buy our cars?

We've got lots of other stuff to sell Japan besides cars.

Canada last year, for instance, sold just a little more overall to Japan
than Japan did to Canada.

 

Then, in a panic situation, you would depress both pedals but swear you
only braked and that the car was trying to accelerate.

 

In message

I believe there really is free trade, it's just that so many makes of
car don't conform to the tight Japanese specification.

 

That is probably true, Japan has to import all of its beef, leather, wood or
paper products and a lot of it food stuffs

 

Perhaps IF the driver in dumb enough to NOT take their right foot of the
accelerator. But then again that could happen since they are continuing to
drive their cars, that are know to have an uncontrolled acceleration problem
that has let to 5.4 million of them to being recalled around the world.

 

A fair and equitable distribution for the customers troubles. Now
where did that Microsoft coupon go......

 

I'm new here, having just bought our first Honda Pilot Touring, so
joined the group. We lived all over Europe, and I've been to Japan,
Korea and, unfortunately, Vietnam. My observation was that they drive
German cars in Germany, French cars in France, Italian...well you get
it... mostly because they really do have a sense of national
identity. In places where, like Cairo, there is no "national" car
then they go for - like the family we've known for years - Honda
because they thought enough to put in a dealership, with trained
mechanics. Otherwise every block has a "shade tree" mechanic for the
old cars that they do have. Most countries have tax policies (like
taxing engine displacement - in Germany) that are a de facto
limitation on imports. Other places, like Switzerland, have a huge
import as well as annual road usage tax, which obviates against big
American cars. And I talked to a Swiss about selling my 455 Pontiac
Bonneville (they want the engine for boats) and he outlined what it
would cost. So there are a lot of factors, mostly taxes, and annual
costs, not to mention the lack of service. We always bought a VW for
delivery in Germany, when we knew we were going, just because of the
service network. I toured an E-Type Jaguar across Europe, and had an
atlas with the few service places outlined. Well, the grandkids just
arrived, so off to get cookies!

 

Why do you assume that a sticking pedal (constant speed) should in your
mind constitute "uncontrollable acceleration"?

 

Really. The only people who win in a class action lawsuit are the lawyers.

 

You won't get an argument from me on that point.

 

Might be true today. Tomorrow might be different.



The market is very fluid at this point, and who " out sells who"
changes almost monthly.



Fact of the matter is, wether they are second, first, or third in
total sales, GM sell MILLIONS of vehicles world wide, in markets where
they ARE ALLOWED TO COMPETE!!!!!!



I've said it a thousand times before, but here it goes again:



If you sell MILLIONS OF ANYTHING, it ain't junk.



Junk doesn't sell, not by the millions.



So, getting back to my original point, GM sell Millions of cars and
trucks world-wide, but only 12000 in Japan.



Sounds to me Japan is using very unfair trade practices, or
"protectionism".

Yet, they cant build Buicks fast enough for China.



Selling 'em by the millions.



And they are hardly either, "non-domestic, nor cheap, small efficient
vehicles"

Fact is, you are wrong, once again. Any way you can objectively
compare US to Japan clearly shows American nameplates are as good as,
or better than, what Japan has to offer. Check the numbers.


As far as biased-typed comparisons, I guess you'll have to stick to
the likes of Consumer Reports or the mass media (but wait, they are
beginning to hammer at the Toyotas like they did Gm in the 80's and
90's.)


I guess we'll have to go to newsgroups like this and listen to the
likes of you whine about how unfair the media is treating Japanese
vehicles.


Hell , even Jim Higgins has posted negative things about Toyotas
lately.


If that ain't a sigh they are in trouble, I don't know what is!




As does GM.



Don't forget, they haven't left the planet yet. They are still selling
millions of cars and trucks.


Actually, its pretty amazing how they still sell so many vehicles
considering the things they have had to over come in the past 30
years.



Just more evidence they must make a pretty damned good product,

 

Well, actually both!


"breaking" as in breaking suspensions in Tundras, and "Braking" as in
the Prius. (I guess Lexus is to follow, but only because the US
government is picking on Japan).


These problems are very real. Please feel free continue sticking your
head in the sand to ignore, or trying to minimize what really is
happening.


You are beginning to sould like a Global warming expert talking while
most of the world has been freezing its ass off for the past several
years.


IOW, you are showing an incredible lack of credibility.

You probably need to wake up and face reality. Recalling TENS OF
MILLIONS of vechicles for a myraid of reasons might be an idication
there MIGHT be a "problem"



Recalling more products than you sell indicates there "might be a
problem"



Knowing there were mechanical failures as far back as 2004 but not
doing anything about it indicates there "might be a problem"




And, as far as BMW goes, GM has made a better product for at least as
long as they have made over Japan. 20 years or more.




Once again, the media white-washed such things until recently.

Once again, you sound like a writer for Consumer Reports. What is
"unreliable?????????? I've owned 30 GM cars over the past 34 years,
driven no doubt over a million miles,( probably a lot more than that),
and have lost ZERO engines and ONE transmission.


"Poor handling"?????????????? What compared to what????????????? A
Supra to a Hummer, or a "Vet" to a Tundra????????????



Or, in general,(no pun intended) The mighty handling Camry or Corolla
to a Monte Carlo or Grand Prix???????????



Gas Guzzling?????????????? This comparison "by the likes of you"
pisses me off about as much as the old "reliability" argument.




I've uses this case before, but here goes again:

My 06 Grand Prix equipped with a 210 hp V6 is much more powerful than
the 170 horse powered FOUR CYLINDER Camry Toyota offered the same
year.

My sticker says it gets 31 mpg highway, (And after four years of
driving it, I can assure you, it does, and even a little better if you
drive it right)

The four banger Toy with a lot less power, gets exactly the same (31
mpg) highway as, my GP does.


Really doesn't sound like a "gas guzzler" to me. But don't take my
word on this, research it. While you're at it, check other TOY vs GM
vechicles head to head, as long as you are comparing apples to apples.
You will find in consistant manner, the GM gets better than it's
comparable Japanese counterpart.


And at the same time offering more power.


FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yet, Gm employs more American workers than Japan does.


The 'likes of you" have destroyed many more jobs, by listening to CR
and beliveing in media crap than any GM outsourcing could ever do.



Shutting down factories because ' the likes of you" let CR do your
thinking, or you wanted to have "my choice" resulted in entire US
cities destroyed, economically.


And don't even go near the argument that Japan employs a lot of
Americans.


They dont even come close to off setting the jobs lost due to the
likes of you.

 

The fact that the Japanese don't buy American cars (I am trying not
to xeonphobic, but I do believe one who lives in the US should be
respectful and use a captial "A" when using the word "American"),
because they ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO SO! Or at least the ones who have
access to the whopping number of 12000 cars their government allows to
be sold there.


For the humpteenth time, you deal in bias and not in reality.


Or in generalizations.


Just like Consumer Reports.

Just like what happens in the good old US of A.

Once again you deal in generalizations, and not in facts.

GM sells more vechicles overseas than they do in the US.

"nobody buys them" is simply bunk/

Sells only in the millions.


SOMEBODY is buying them.

Good guess.


I do live in a rural area. Lot of pick-up trucks here.



Mostly American nameplates.




I find it ironic that the cities, where you say the volume is, have
had the life squeezed out of them economically because auto factories
shutting down due to the citizens of the very same cities choosing to
drive a Japanese or European nameplate.


And it is ironic that the fews jobs that do remain, are because of
rural communites like mine, or foreign countries buying the products.


Of course, in the end, we all reap what we sow.

Use Google.


Take a little time.


Research.


It's all there, if you choose to believe facts.

 

Two reasons.


1. This is a car newsgroup. That is what we usually discuss here.


2. More importantly, opening up the Japanese would undoubtably result
in an increase in US car sales, meaning more jobs.

Like what???? Radios????????? Televisions??????????

 

No, the Japanese Government restricts the number of US cars allowed to
be sold in the US.


No free trade at all is allowed.

 

I have never read CR, literally never. My extreme dislike of American
vehicles is based on life experience.

My experience with domestic vehicles has been far different than your
own. Based on my experience, it would be completely illogical to buy
something like the 2001 Impala that my neighbor owned which threw a rod
at 37K miles and was in the shop for warranty issues almost as much as
it was on the road before the self-destructing engine caused her to
trade the car in.

As a replacement, she bought a Toyota that has performed very well for
over 5 years now.

People did not just start hating domestic vehicles because it is trendy,
there is a very logical reason for it. I would not own a GM if it were
given to me, I would sell it immediately.

Never, ever again on any GM crap. The job losses are perfectly
understandable, to be expected, in fact.

Same with Ford, I have owned two POS Fords and my parent's owned the
worst lemon ever in the form of a Ford LTD.

That LTD had problems that seemed like a practical joke. It actually had
a heater that would not turn off during the Texas summer, the horn
button popped off, the taillight covers fell off at random, the list
goes on and on.
They owned it less than a year before admitting their mistake and
switching to imports only from that point to today.

Never again, and I mean never. You can argue the equal quality of
domestic vehicles forever, but it won't make people like me buy one.

I, OTOH, have caused a good number of people to step back and rethink
their buying decision towards a reliable car when they start to glance
at the inferior domestic car market.

 

I've bought "foreign" because "US" automakers simply didn't make the
small,sporty performance coupes I prefer.
Then there's the ergonomics,quality and resale value.
I also note the large number and types of recalls the domestics have had.

I wish Honda would make the Prelude again.
I also wish small cars weighed under 2800 lbs.;cars have gotten too
heavy,making mileage worse.
IMO,no "small" car should need a V-6 to propel it at a decent performance.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

That is what I like about my early Miata, it only weighs about 2200
pounds, maybe 2300 with the aftermarket parts, and I like roadsters.

That car moved pretty nicely with 116 hp out of a 1.6 liter, but it now
has a 1.8 liter with a turbo that puts out about 200HP at the wheels.
The boost/power can be dialed up anytime, but the current settings make
for a nicely street-able vehicle. That is my toy car.

My 1995 Accord is also pretty lightweight compared to most sedans made
today, iirc. I forget exactly what it comes in at.