pedants corner: owners manual on honda oil level checking procedure

from
http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/assets/OWNERLINK/model/own_man/2001HondaCivic.pdf

in the chapter titled "Service Station Procedures", we find on on page 166:

"Check the engine oil level every time you fill the car with fuel. Wait
a few
minutes after turning the engine off before you check the oil."

then, in my hard copy of the 1989 civic manual, in the chapter titled
"engine oil and filter", we find on page 60:

"checking.
check the engine oil a couple of minutes after shutting the engine off,
with the car parked on level ground."

both seem clear and unequivocal to me.

so, why do people so adamantly resist even reading this stuff, let alone
following it? is it just a tradition thing like changing oil every 3k
miles? do people think they know better than the guys that made the car
in the first place? or is it an inability to admit they can't be
bothered to educate themselves on their multi-kilo-dollar investments
properly? or do they think anyone pointing out something that
challenges their previously unquestioned "faith" is a bullshitter and so
simply shut their intellectual doors?

humans - they're incredible and weird.

 

I explained it to you, nicely, you stupid cocksucker. Why do you keep
asking? This truly isn't a rhetorical question: why don't you simply
shut the **** up? You've demonstrated that you're too goddamn stupid to
learn, and pretty much everyone knows what an asshat you are.

What in the world could possibly motivate you to continue to flaunt your
stupidity in public? There must surely be some sort of motivation, even
if normal humans would have a difficult time understanding it.

For the love of god, you ignorant, nose-picking, shit-licking random
fuckface, why don't you just shut up?


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

when you're done, what does it say in /your/ honda owner manuals dave?
this is not a rhetorical question.

 

NOBODY does this.
Telling people to check their oil at EVERY fill up is stupid, everyone
knows it's stupid so it is ignored.
Except by you.

Meantime if anyone wants to check their oil first thing in the
morning, they'll get nearly the same reading as at the gas station so
long as the car was parked on level ground. And they won't need a
wipe. And they can check their tire pressures when the tires are cold
- something you can't do at the gas station.

Now if you were to read the section on checking transmission fluid and
it were to say it should be checked with the transmission fluid at
operating temperature then you could go on to say something about
check engine oil right after checking the trans. But I doubt many
owners could locate the trans fluid so this would be another waste of
time - in other words, right up your alley.

and some are pedantic.

 

by stupid people...

 

news at 10: f.a.a. decides that airlines can dispense with "safety
checks". the new standard of "well, it seemed to be ok last time we
used it" is now considered sufficient for the nation's air fleet.
spokesperson for a.l.p.a., mr brain acar, told reporters that members
were "thrilled the stupidity is over" and that they were looking forward
to "just getting on with flying".

under this rule change, airlines from the former soviet union member
states and greater africa will now also be able to crash within u.s.
airspace for the first time.

 

I checked my oil yesterday at a gas station about 2 minutes after turning the
engine off. I checked it again this morning after it sat all night. The level on
the dipstick was the same.

If I repeat this experiment a hundred times will I get a different result?

-jim

 

you found time to do this after you'd finished sniffing the seats in
your school bus?

in your case, that is a psychometric challenge, not a statistical challenge.

 

While I agree it is clear and unequivocal to me, it also seems and
excessive and a ridiculous requirement. Would you really want a car
that needs to have the oil checked every 300 miles?

This seems like a sorty of "I told you so," "cover my ass sort of
requirment." Do you think the engineers at Honda expect the vast
majority of owners to checek their oil every 300 miles (or less)? If
so, then they are idiots who should not be designing cars. And if the
product is so failure prone, that checking the oil that often is
actually necessary, who would be dumb enough to buy one?

Maybe the hope is that if you tell them to do it every fuel stop,
mabye they will do it once and a while - which would be a vast
improvement over what many owners do today.

Ed

 

typical ed - total perversion of reality. but if we run with that kind
of logical bullshitting, who would be dumb enough to buy a vehicle where
the manufacturer /doesn't/ want you to regularly check under the hood?
are they trying to prevent you from keeping the car on the road, not
buying another vehicle because this one has been allowed to fail?

yeah. like hoping people will read the owners manual and actually pay
attention, not disregard it for superstition and witch-doctry.

bottom line is that while even i, anal pedant though i am, don't check
the oil every single time, the advice is still sound and there for very
important reason - if there is a problem [let's say the primate at iffy
lube forgot to tighten the drain plug properly] there is a chance you
will catch it before there is serious damage. afterall, you paid many
kilodollars to buy this vehicle, and a failure of this nature isn't
covered on insurance, so who can justify [or afford] a cavalier attitude
of disregard???

 

Here is what 2006 Chrysler Sebring owners manual states about checking
oil:

{quote]

Checking Oil Level

To assure proper lubrication of your vehicle’s engine, the
engine oil must be maintained, at the correct level. Check
the oil level at regular intervals, such as every fuel stop.
The best time to check the oil level is about 5 minutes
after a fully warmed engine is shut off or before starting
the engine after it has sat overnight.

[end quote]

-jim

 

the scientific method according to seat-sniffing school bus drivers:

1. hatch your uninformed preconception

2. shop around until you find something that can be argued as agreement

3. disregard anything else however contrary - like calibration that
takes into account thermal expansion, drainback and environment.

4. post as above to newsgroups while waiting for the afternoon run to
roll around.

 

You apparently lack any common sense. How hard is it to check what the oil
level is about 2 minutes after a fully warmed engine is shut off and then
check it again before starting the engine after it has sat overnight? How
hard is it to compare the result of those two checks?

-jim

 

how hard is it for you to acknowledge that people in alaska and people
in nevada don't have the same thermal environment? how hard is it for
you to acknowledge that engines operate at pretty much the same
temperature all the time, regardless of location? how hard is it for
you to acknowledge that some oil filer drain-back valves suck, still get
used anyway, but that it doesn't matter if you dip hot?

oh, wait, you're not interested in actual reality or facts because
you're too busy sniffing school bus seats. and because you're just a
twisted desperate argumentative retard that never had the brains to
contribute a damned thing in their pathetic twisted desperate
argumentative retarded life.

 

Yes absolutely. For someone with no common sense there can be insurmountable
problems. If you have flat tire it may also affect the accuracy of oil level
check. For someone with no common sense this might be an insurmountable problem,
but most people have a little common sense and therefore it isn't a problem worth
mentioning.

If you have common sense you might actually know whether you are in Alaska or
Nevada. And you might be able to determine if your filter or any other engine
component was not functioning properly. Checking the oil cold is one way to
confirm that the filter is malfunctioning if you notice the oil pressure doesn't
come up quickly on cold starts.

 

"come up quickly"? like the pervert retard sniffing school bus seats?

no retard, that's incorrect - that can't differentiate between an empty
filter, a blocked filter, low start temperature or any other oil
pressure factor.

fact: there is no useful external symptom of drainback valve function
other than the rate at which the oil level varies after shutdown. and
because you're a retard, i'd better spell it out that "rate" could be
zero, it could be an hour, or it could be a day. *none* affect the
level of the oil when dipped hot like it says in the honda manual.
which is of course why honda specify that, why honda calibrate for that,
and why you're a retard because you just won't fucking learn.

 

Pffft. Every word you write reinforces what I said.

 

Come on guys. A dip stick is not a highly precise calibrated
measurement instrument. It is basically a three position indicator,
add, OK, too much. I am sure that there is an adequate safety margin
built into the marks on the stick so that the difference between
waiting a few minutes, or a couple of minutes, or overnight is
insignificant to the safe operation of your engine. Unless the oil
drain holes in the head are plugged or the ADBV in the filter is crap,
it doesn't take hours for the majority of oil in the system to return
to the pan. I think the Honda manual is using terms like "a few
minutes" or "a couple of minutes" to prevent someone from checking the
oil immeadiately after the engine is shutdown. They say do it on level
ground to keep someone from checking it on the side of a San Francisco
hill. I don't think they are treating this like a detail oil checking
procedure designed to provide a perfect reading of the oil level in
the pan. Get the car on a mostly level surfcae, shut off the engine,
give it a couple of minutes to let the oil drain back, pull the stick,
wipe it off, reinsert it, and then take a look. If the level is above
the add range and below the full mark, then you are good. Most of my
current dip sticks have a hatched area about the "full" mark that
indicated it is OK but not necessary to have an oil level in the
hatched range. If you ae looking for any significance in the
"measurement" beyond the oil level is "OK," I think you are fooling
yourself. If you look on a regular basis, you are probably exceeding
the manufacturer's expectations and certainly doing more than many car
owners. I don't remeber my Mother ever checking the oil in her car
(and I mean ever). My older Sister does it occasionally (mostly after
I gripe about the level when I change her oil). My Sons do it
regularly. My older son claims he does it every time he buys
gas....maybe he does but I'd have to see it to believe it.

Ed

Ed

 

You sure have a way of generating discussion on a thread....

 

you cannot rely on that.

that's presumptive at best. on my car, the oil level difference between
cold and operation temp is about half a stick, depending on whether the
filter drain-back valve is functional and the season. that can easily
make the difference between over-full, or under-full. needless to say,
it is not advisable to commence a road trip with a false reading like that.

how would you know if it's crap? take it off to check? that's the only
way to know for sure.

indeed - it only takes a couple of minutes - like when you fuel the car.

which is what i've been saying all along. and is in the manual. yet
apparently, it's ok to check the manual for brake fluid maintenance, but
for oil maintenance, the manual is to be ignored. bizarre.

but you're not going to catch the onset of a sudden problem that way!

as the old saying goes, flies eat s***, but that doesn't mean it's good
for you to copy them.