pedants corner: owners manual on honda oil level checking procedure

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by jim beam, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. jim beam

    jim beam Guest


    in the chapter titled "Service Station Procedures", we find on on page 166:

    "Check the engine oil level every time you fill the car with fuel. Wait
    a few
    minutes after turning the engine off before you check the oil."

    then, in my hard copy of the 1989 civic manual, in the chapter titled
    "engine oil and filter", we find on page 60:

    check the engine oil a couple of minutes after shutting the engine off,
    with the car parked on level ground."

    both seem clear and unequivocal to me.

    so, why do people so adamantly resist even reading this stuff, let alone
    following it? is it just a tradition thing like changing oil every 3k
    miles? do people think they know better than the guys that made the car
    in the first place? or is it an inability to admit they can't be
    bothered to educate themselves on their multi-kilo-dollar investments
    properly? or do they think anyone pointing out something that
    challenges their previously unquestioned "faith" is a bullshitter and so
    simply shut their intellectual doors?

    humans - they're incredible and weird.
    jim beam, Jun 12, 2010
  2. jim beam

    Dave Kelsen Guest

    I explained it to you, nicely, you stupid cocksucker. Why do you keep
    asking? This truly isn't a rhetorical question: why don't you simply
    shut the **** up? You've demonstrated that you're too goddamn stupid to
    learn, and pretty much everyone knows what an asshat you are.

    What in the world could possibly motivate you to continue to flaunt your
    stupidity in public? There must surely be some sort of motivation, even
    if normal humans would have a difficult time understanding it.

    For the love of god, you ignorant, nose-picking, shit-licking random
    fuckface, why don't you just shut up?

    Dave Kelsen
    Dave Kelsen, Jun 12, 2010
  3. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    when you're done, what does it say in /your/ honda owner manuals dave?
    this is not a rhetorical question.
    jim beam, Jun 12, 2010
  4. jim beam

    ACAR Guest

    NOBODY does this.
    Telling people to check their oil at EVERY fill up is stupid, everyone
    knows it's stupid so it is ignored.
    Except by you.

    Meantime if anyone wants to check their oil first thing in the
    morning, they'll get nearly the same reading as at the gas station so
    long as the car was parked on level ground. And they won't need a
    wipe. And they can check their tire pressures when the tires are cold
    - something you can't do at the gas station.

    Now if you were to read the section on checking transmission fluid and
    it were to say it should be checked with the transmission fluid at
    operating temperature then you could go on to say something about
    check engine oil right after checking the trans. But I doubt many
    owners could locate the trans fluid so this would be another waste of
    time - in other words, right up your alley.
    and some are pedantic.
    ACAR, Jun 12, 2010
  5. by stupid people...
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jun 12, 2010
  6. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    news at 10: f.a.a. decides that airlines can dispense with "safety
    checks". the new standard of "well, it seemed to be ok last time we
    used it" is now considered sufficient for the nation's air fleet.
    spokesperson for a.l.p.a., mr brain acar, told reporters that members
    were "thrilled the stupidity is over" and that they were looking forward
    to "just getting on with flying".

    under this rule change, airlines from the former soviet union member
    states and greater africa will now also be able to crash within u.s.
    airspace for the first time.
    jim beam, Jun 13, 2010
  7. jim beam

    jim Guest

    I checked my oil yesterday at a gas station about 2 minutes after turning the
    engine off. I checked it again this morning after it sat all night. The level on
    the dipstick was the same.

    If I repeat this experiment a hundred times will I get a different result?

    jim, Jun 13, 2010
  8. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    you found time to do this after you'd finished sniffing the seats in
    your school bus?

    in your case, that is a psychometric challenge, not a statistical challenge.
    jim beam, Jun 14, 2010
  9. jim beam

    C. E. White Guest

    While I agree it is clear and unequivocal to me, it also seems and
    excessive and a ridiculous requirement. Would you really want a car
    that needs to have the oil checked every 300 miles?

    This seems like a sorty of "I told you so," "cover my ass sort of
    requirment." Do you think the engineers at Honda expect the vast
    majority of owners to checek their oil every 300 miles (or less)? If
    so, then they are idiots who should not be designing cars. And if the
    product is so failure prone, that checking the oil that often is
    actually necessary, who would be dumb enough to buy one?

    Maybe the hope is that if you tell them to do it every fuel stop,
    mabye they will do it once and a while - which would be a vast
    improvement over what many owners do today.

    C. E. White, Jun 14, 2010
  10. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    typical ed - total perversion of reality. but if we run with that kind
    of logical bullshitting, who would be dumb enough to buy a vehicle where
    the manufacturer /doesn't/ want you to regularly check under the hood?
    are they trying to prevent you from keeping the car on the road, not
    buying another vehicle because this one has been allowed to fail?

    yeah. like hoping people will read the owners manual and actually pay
    attention, not disregard it for superstition and witch-doctry.

    bottom line is that while even i, anal pedant though i am, don't check
    the oil every single time, the advice is still sound and there for very
    important reason - if there is a problem [let's say the primate at iffy
    lube forgot to tighten the drain plug properly] there is a chance you
    will catch it before there is serious damage. afterall, you paid many
    kilodollars to buy this vehicle, and a failure of this nature isn't
    covered on insurance, so who can justify [or afford] a cavalier attitude
    of disregard???
    jim beam, Jun 14, 2010
  11. jim beam

    jim Guest

    Here is what 2006 Chrysler Sebring owners manual states about checking


    Checking Oil Level

    To assure proper lubrication of your vehicle’s engine, the
    engine oil must be maintained, at the correct level. Check
    the oil level at regular intervals, such as every fuel stop.
    The best time to check the oil level is about 5 minutes
    after a fully warmed engine is shut off or before starting
    the engine after it has sat overnight.

    [end quote]

    jim, Jun 14, 2010
  12. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    the scientific method according to seat-sniffing school bus drivers:

    1. hatch your uninformed preconception

    2. shop around until you find something that can be argued as agreement

    3. disregard anything else however contrary - like calibration that
    takes into account thermal expansion, drainback and environment.

    4. post as above to newsgroups while waiting for the afternoon run to
    roll around.
    jim beam, Jun 14, 2010
  13. jim beam

    jim Guest

    You apparently lack any common sense. How hard is it to check what the oil
    level is about 2 minutes after a fully warmed engine is shut off and then
    check it again before starting the engine after it has sat overnight? How
    hard is it to compare the result of those two checks?

    jim, Jun 15, 2010
  14. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    how hard is it for you to acknowledge that people in alaska and people
    in nevada don't have the same thermal environment? how hard is it for
    you to acknowledge that engines operate at pretty much the same
    temperature all the time, regardless of location? how hard is it for
    you to acknowledge that some oil filer drain-back valves suck, still get
    used anyway, but that it doesn't matter if you dip hot?

    oh, wait, you're not interested in actual reality or facts because
    you're too busy sniffing school bus seats. and because you're just a
    twisted desperate argumentative retard that never had the brains to
    contribute a damned thing in their pathetic twisted desperate
    argumentative retarded life.
    jim beam, Jun 15, 2010
  15. jim beam

    jim Guest

    Yes absolutely. For someone with no common sense there can be insurmountable
    problems. If you have flat tire it may also affect the accuracy of oil level
    check. For someone with no common sense this might be an insurmountable problem,
    but most people have a little common sense and therefore it isn't a problem worth

    If you have common sense you might actually know whether you are in Alaska or
    Nevada. And you might be able to determine if your filter or any other engine
    component was not functioning properly. Checking the oil cold is one way to
    confirm that the filter is malfunctioning if you notice the oil pressure doesn't
    come up quickly on cold starts.
    jim, Jun 15, 2010
  16. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    "come up quickly"? like the pervert retard sniffing school bus seats?

    no retard, that's incorrect - that can't differentiate between an empty
    filter, a blocked filter, low start temperature or any other oil
    pressure factor.

    fact: there is no useful external symptom of drainback valve function
    other than the rate at which the oil level varies after shutdown. and
    because you're a retard, i'd better spell it out that "rate" could be
    zero, it could be an hour, or it could be a day. *none* affect the
    level of the oil when dipped hot like it says in the honda manual.
    which is of course why honda specify that, why honda calibrate for that,
    and why you're a retard because you just won't fucking learn.
    jim beam, Jun 15, 2010
  17. jim beam

    jim Guest

    Pffft. Every word you write reinforces what I said.
    jim, Jun 15, 2010
  18. jim beam

    C. E. White Guest

    Come on guys. A dip stick is not a highly precise calibrated
    measurement instrument. It is basically a three position indicator,
    add, OK, too much. I am sure that there is an adequate safety margin
    built into the marks on the stick so that the difference between
    waiting a few minutes, or a couple of minutes, or overnight is
    insignificant to the safe operation of your engine. Unless the oil
    drain holes in the head are plugged or the ADBV in the filter is crap,
    it doesn't take hours for the majority of oil in the system to return
    to the pan. I think the Honda manual is using terms like "a few
    minutes" or "a couple of minutes" to prevent someone from checking the
    oil immeadiately after the engine is shutdown. They say do it on level
    ground to keep someone from checking it on the side of a San Francisco
    hill. I don't think they are treating this like a detail oil checking
    procedure designed to provide a perfect reading of the oil level in
    the pan. Get the car on a mostly level surfcae, shut off the engine,
    give it a couple of minutes to let the oil drain back, pull the stick,
    wipe it off, reinsert it, and then take a look. If the level is above
    the add range and below the full mark, then you are good. Most of my
    current dip sticks have a hatched area about the "full" mark that
    indicated it is OK but not necessary to have an oil level in the
    hatched range. If you ae looking for any significance in the
    "measurement" beyond the oil level is "OK," I think you are fooling
    yourself. If you look on a regular basis, you are probably exceeding
    the manufacturer's expectations and certainly doing more than many car
    owners. I don't remeber my Mother ever checking the oil in her car
    (and I mean ever). My older Sister does it occasionally (mostly after
    I gripe about the level when I change her oil). My Sons do it
    regularly. My older son claims he does it every time he buys
    gas....maybe he does but I'd have to see it to believe it.


    C. E. White, Jun 15, 2010
  19. jim beam

    Iowna Uass Guest

    You sure have a way of generating discussion on a thread....
    Iowna Uass, Jun 15, 2010
  20. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    you cannot rely on that.

    that's presumptive at best. on my car, the oil level difference between
    cold and operation temp is about half a stick, depending on whether the
    filter drain-back valve is functional and the season. that can easily
    make the difference between over-full, or under-full. needless to say,
    it is not advisable to commence a road trip with a false reading like that.

    how would you know if it's crap? take it off to check? that's the only
    way to know for sure.

    indeed - it only takes a couple of minutes - like when you fuel the car.

    which is what i've been saying all along. and is in the manual. yet
    apparently, it's ok to check the manual for brake fluid maintenance, but
    for oil maintenance, the manual is to be ignored. bizarre.

    but you're not going to catch the onset of a sudden problem that way!

    as the old saying goes, flies eat s***, but that doesn't mean it's good
    for you to copy them.
    jim beam, Jun 16, 2010
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