Park car, remove key, still in "D", car leaves...

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Casey, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. Casey

    Casey Guest

    Okay, so it was late at night and I should have realized what I was
    doing, but...

    I drove up in my (almost level) driveway last night, turned off the
    ignition of my almost-new 2003 Accord V6 Coupe, took out the key,
    and got out. As I was walking up the steps of my house, I heard a
    loud noise. I turned around to see what it was.. and realized my
    car wasn't in the driveway anymore. It had rolled out the
    driveway, across the street, and backed itself into a small pine
    tree in my neighbor's yard.

    The end result is a leaning tree and a scraped-off bare spot the
    size of my fist on the lower part of the plastic bumper. I don't
    know if it can be repaired or if the whole plastic part has to be
    replaced. The spot really shows since the car is white.

    Although I should have put the car park, the key easily came out
    while the transmission selector was in "Drive". I've done the same
    thing before, but realized the car was rolling before I got out. I
    can remove the key and insert the key while in "D", which the
    owner's manual clearly says you can't do. The key can be on
    (engine running), the transmission in drive, and I can simply twist
    the key and remove with no trouble at all.

    I couldn't do this when I first got the car. If the damn key
    hadn't come out last night, my bumper would still look brand new.
    Anybody else's ignition switch work this way (now)?


    I started with nothing. I still have most of it.
    Casey, Nov 10, 2003
  2. Casey,

    This was posted on on Thursday:
    Your answer seems to be near.




    To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address,
    you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks.

    Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing,
    you should not play any notes you have left over. -
    'Curly Q. Links', Nov 10, 2003
  3. There a recall on this, although your model isn't covered. Clearly
    this is a safety defect and they should be happy to cover the
    relatively minor consequential damages. If they hesitate, mention
    that this really should be reported to NHTSA.
    Gordon McGrew, Nov 10, 2003
  4. Casey

    MelvinGibson Guest

    Apparently you didn't read the owners manual that came with your
    2003 Accord V6 Coupe. If you had you would have applied the
    parking brakes as suggested. Honda has a recall for that
    problem, but the fact that the key can be removed when not in
    park did not result in the car to rolling from its parking spot.
    Not applying the brake did.

    mike hunt
    MelvinGibson, Nov 10, 2003
  5. Casey

    DrPimpDaddi Guest

    Apparently you didn't read the owners manual that came with your
    you are such an idiot mike ****. If his car had rolled down and ran over couple
    of kids, it wouldn't be his fault. It would be Honda's.

    I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.
    DrPimpDaddi, Nov 10, 2003
  6. Casey

    Casey Guest

    Thank you for your help.

    And if you were considering a career as a politician, you might
    want to reconsider...


    I started with nothing. I still have most of it.
    Casey, Nov 10, 2003
  7. Casey

    Milleron Guest

    I must disagree. If the original poster lives in a state that
    recognizes contributory negligence, then he *might* have to bear some
    of the responsibility, but even there, the accident resulted from a
    clear malfunction of a device, under warranty, the failure of which
    posed risk to life and limb.
    Your admonition to RTFM seems inappropriate. The OP clearly did read
    the owner's manual. He explained clearly why the oversight occurred.
    The accident happened secondary to FAILURE of a device that is
    designed SPECIFICALLY to protect against inevitable operator
    oversight. There is no other reason that it exists.
    This one's on Honda

    Milleron, Nov 10, 2003
  8. Casey

    Cory Dunkle Guest

    It is not Hondas fault the OP is negligent and forgetful, in other words a
    blundering fool. These sorts of things are _not_ inevitable, in fact most
    people will never do what the OP did. Back in the '60s and earlier when
    these devices didn't exist would it be Mercury's fault if your '67 Cougar
    rolled over some children after you got out of the car and left it in drive,
    not setting the brake? Of course not. Just because an auto maker tries to
    protect you from your own stupid self doesn't make it their fault if their
    'protect you from yourself' device fails. If you placed that same '67 Cougar
    in park and set the parking brake and somehow the parking brake released or
    the cable snapped _and_ the pawl in the transmission snapped it would then
    be Mercury's fault.

    Again, this was a case of someone doing something stupid... We all do stupid
    things in our lives, some worse than others. What I don't understand is what
    is so hard about taking responsibility for your own actions. I mean
    honestly, Honda has no fault in this... This is between the OP and gravity,
    but guess what, it's not gravity's fault that the OP didn't secure his car
    properly before leaving it. Grow up and take some responsibility for your
    own actions.

    Cory Dunkle, Nov 10, 2003
  9. Casey

    Me Guest

    This is incredible! The OP should wake up to the fact that he made an
    bewilderingly stupid series of errors and be thankful the only consequence
    was some paint damage, instead he is looking to blame the vehicle makers.
    Me, Nov 10, 2003
  10. Casey

    Rick Guest

    Well... It is the 'American way'...

    Rick, Nov 10, 2003
  11. Casey

    Casey Guest

    Me said for all posterity...
    Bewilderingly stupid series of errors? No, just one error. Forgot
    to put transmission selector in "Park" before removing the key.
    Actually I'm more thankful it was late at night and no one got
    hurt. Kids play in front of my house from time to time.

    And as far as "blaming the vehicle makers" goes, what I said was:

    "If the damn key hadn't come out last night, my bumper would still
    look brand new. Anybody else's ignition switch work this way


    I started with nothing. I still have most of it.
    Casey, Nov 10, 2003
  12. Casey

    Cory Dunkle Guest

    Actually two... You did not set the parking brake either. Not bewilderingly
    stupid, just something that may easily happen to any of us. Admittedly I
    have left my '67 and my '68 Galaxies in drive and turned them off (a few
    times actually... It took me a while to remember to turn my lights off every
    time too, when it wasn't really dark out that is), getting out of the car...
    However I always use my parking brake as a simple matter of safety. It's a
    good habit.

    Since the '68 has a cheasy/cheap plastic prone-to-break neutral safety
    switch I bypassed it (got a replacement, it broke after shifting twice... No
    more left in the junkyard, apparently several other people have had this
    problem too). Twice when I started the car I wondered why the engine RPM was
    a bit lower than I had my cold idle set at, and why when I went to kick it
    off high idle the engine barely revved and the car seemed to tilt/twist more
    than normal from the torque. I then noticed it was in drive.

    Good maintenance of my car (i.e. parking brake adjusted and working
    properly) and good habits stopped the car from lurching forward when I
    started it. I made a dumb mistake a few times when I was in a hurry or tired
    or my mind just wasn't with my but thanks to my good habits I prevented any
    potentially bad things from happening.
    Good, I'm glad to hear no one was hurt. You still made a mistake though, no
    big deal... It's just a car. You are to blame, but that isn't a big deal.
    If you had put the car in park and/or set your parking brake your bumper
    would still look brand new. Don't blame the key, place the blame on yourself
    where it belongs... Just remember it's not a big deal and use the experience
    to help you remember to put the car in park and set your parking brake.

    Cory Dunkle, Nov 10, 2003
  13. Casey

    DrPimpDaddi Guest

    It is not Hondas fault the OP is negligent and forgetful, in other words a
    You and mike **** are idiots.

    The OP's situation is no different than the following:

    1) You forget to turn off the headlights and the battery drains. Usually, it
    would be your fault, unless the car was equpped with auto-off feature. Guess
    who pays for a new battery then? The manufactuer. Why? Because the feature
    failed to do as advertised.

    2) You drive recklessly while drunk.... hit a telephone pole....but the air-bag
    fails to deploy and you suffer major injuries. Yes, it was stupid to drink &
    drive and drive recklessly, but guess who will when you sue the manufactuer?

    Remember Willie Shoemaker? He was driving drunk when he rolled his Ford
    Exploder and became a paraplegic. He sued Ford and won, because the jury found
    that the Exploders were unsafe and had a tendency to roll over.

    As for the OP, the inability to take the key out of ignition while out of "P"
    is a safety feature built in to this vehicle. When the key can be pulled out,
    it means this safety feature MALFUNCTIONED. Unless Honda tells their customers
    before they purchase the car that this feature is not included and/or they are
    not responsible if it malfunctions, they are liable. Why do you think this
    feature is built in to most vehicles? Because people often forget. Hell, I've
    done it a few times too.

    I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.
    DrPimpDaddi, Nov 10, 2003
  14. Casey

    DrPimpDaddi Guest

    Actually two... You did not set the parking brake either.

    99.99% of the time, you shouldn't have to use it. If you park on a hill and
    somehow the car rolls down the embankment and strikes people, you wouldn't be
    responsible, unless its use was mandatory.

    Again, it's NOT his fault!!!!!!!!

    If he had left the car running and it rolled, then it would be.

    I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.
    DrPimpDaddi, Nov 10, 2003
  15. Casey

    Milleron Guest

    Read your statement: You say that this oversight is NOT inevitable,
    but then contradict yourself by saying that "MOST" people will never
    make this mistake. The point is exactly that. While MOST people
    never will, when you have millions of drivers parking cars tens of
    millions of times a day it is not only inevitable that it will happen,
    but it's actually inevitable that it will happen many times every
    single day.
    Whoa! How in the world do you know that? Do you think that it was
    just out of their boundless humanity that all auto makers began
    installing this safeguard system???
    It doesn't??? I guess ignorance can be bliss/
    So you're saying that when a device in a car fails and someone is
    hurt, it's the manufacturers fault? How very insightful of you! This
    is exactly what the courts have found time after time after time.
    Ahh, Cory, you're missing the point again. I happen to agree with you
    on this one, but it has nothing to do with willingness to take
    responsibility. It has everything to do with this country's
    hopelessly pitiful state of tort law.

    Milleron, Nov 10, 2003
  16. The main safety defect is the driver, who relied on a small pawl in
    the tranny instead of the parking brake to secure the car.

    My fave injuries are those to drivers who leave their car in park with
    the engine running and then knock it into reverse as they exit and are
    knocked down by the door and run over repeatedly. My local paper even
    ran a big sob story the other year about some fool who thought he left
    his farm truck in park with the engine running and was run over
    several times by the damn thing after he got out. We got to read a big
    story about how tough his injuries were and how hard it was for him to
    recover. The whole ordeal would have been avoided by the fool if he
    set the brake.

    A personal injury lawyer may beg to differ, and might win his case in
    court, but I'll still contend the largest safety defect in such a
    situation is in the brain of the mope who failed to set the brake.

    Michael Davis, Nov 11, 2003
  17. Casey

    Cory Dunkle Guest

    I meant that it is not inevitable that it will happen to everyone. My point
    was that most people will likely go through tehir entire life without
    leaving the car in drive and getting out.
    It's your own damned fault. If you were driving a vehicle that had no such
    'safety feature' you would end up having the same result. It is _always_
    solely your own responsibility to ensure your vehicle is safely parked. If
    you fail to do that, regardless of any safety features, it's your fault.
    Safety features are there just in case, in order to try to prevent it or
    prevent it from getting worse. That does not remove the responsiblity from
    yourself to operate your vehicle safely.
    I'll say.
    Cory Dunkle, Nov 11, 2003
  18. Casey

    Cory Dunkle Guest

    He's not responsible for the damage done to his car because he didn't set
    the parking brake, he is responsible for it since he did not securely park
    his car. He could have used the parking brake, putting the transmission in
    park, chocking/blocking a wheel, or just letting it sit on a level surface.
    He parked on an incline and did not secure his vehicle, so he is
    responsible. If his car had a feature which engaged the parking brake
    whenever the key was removed *then* the auto maker would be at fault, not
    for something like thsi where in the end the responsibility lies on the
    driver... The car is not supposed to put the transmission in park for him,
    nor is it supposed to set the parking brake.
    Okay, so if I park my Prelude, leave it in neutral and do not set the
    parking brake, then the car rolls away and does damage or kills someone it
    is not my fault? It sure as heck isn't Honda's fault. So whos fault is it?
    Cory Dunkle, Nov 11, 2003
  19. Casey

    DrPimpDaddi Guest

    He's not responsible for the damage done to his car because he didn't set
    Not setting the parking brake is NOT against the law, unless posted. A car
    should not be able to roll when its in "P" and the key removed. If it does,
    then the manufactuer failed, not the owner.

    Well, as far as I know, you shouldn't be able to pull your key out in "N"
    either. If it does, then Honda would be liable.... unless they made it clear to
    you (such as putting a warning lable on the dash) that that can happen.

    I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.
    DrPimpDaddi, Nov 11, 2003
  20. He did make a mistake. It was not "bewilderingly stupid" but rather a
    very common error. So common that cars have long been designed to
    make the error nearly impossible.

    Most accidents do not have a single cause but rather are a chain of
    failures. This is because we have built as much redundancy into the
    systems as we can because the occupance of a single failure is much
    too common. The driver should have made certain that the vehicle was
    in Park. The key should not have been removable. Both are to blame
    because eliminating either failure would have prevented the accident.
    The driver is now (presumably) more careful about parking. Honda
    needs to fix this interlock and all the others which have the same
    design or manufacturing defect.
    Gordon McGrew, Nov 11, 2003
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.