Park car, remove key, still in "D", car leaves...

Okay, so it was late at night and I should have realized what I was
doing, but...

I drove up in my (almost level) driveway last night, turned off the
ignition of my almost-new 2003 Accord V6 Coupe, took out the key,
and got out. As I was walking up the steps of my house, I heard a
loud noise. I turned around to see what it was.. and realized my
car wasn't in the driveway anymore. It had rolled out the
driveway, across the street, and backed itself into a small pine
tree in my neighbor's yard.

The end result is a leaning tree and a scraped-off bare spot the
size of my fist on the lower part of the plastic bumper. I don't
know if it can be repaired or if the whole plastic part has to be
replaced. The spot really shows since the car is white.

Although I should have put the car park, the key easily came out
while the transmission selector was in "Drive". I've done the same
thing before, but realized the car was rolling before I got out. I
can remove the key and insert the key while in "D", which the
owner's manual clearly says you can't do. The key can be on
(engine running), the transmission in drive, and I can simply twist
the key and remove with no trouble at all.

I couldn't do this when I first got the car. If the damn key
hadn't come out last night, my bumper would still look brand new.
Anybody else's ignition switch work this way (now)?


Casey

I started with nothing. I still have most of it.

 

Casey,

This was posted on alt.autos.honda on Thursday:

Your answer seems to be near.

'Curly'

----------------

--

To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address,
you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks.

Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing,
you should not play any notes you have left over. -

 

There a recall on this, although your model isn't covered. Clearly
this is a safety defect and they should be happy to cover the
relatively minor consequential damages. If they hesitate, mention
that this really should be reported to NHTSA.

 

Apparently you didn't read the owners manual that came with your
2003 Accord V6 Coupe. If you had you would have applied the
parking brakes as suggested. Honda has a recall for that
problem, but the fact that the key can be removed when not in
park did not result in the car to rolling from its parking spot.
Not applying the brake did.


mike hunt

 

Apparently you didn't read the owners manual that came with your

you are such an idiot mike ****. If his car had rolled down and ran over couple
of kids, it wouldn't be his fault. It would be Honda's.




....................
I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.

 

Thank you for your help.

And if you were considering a career as a politician, you might
want to reconsider...


Casey

I started with nothing. I still have most of it.

 

I must disagree. If the original poster lives in a state that
recognizes contributory negligence, then he *might* have to bear some
of the responsibility, but even there, the accident resulted from a
clear malfunction of a device, under warranty, the failure of which
posed risk to life and limb.
Your admonition to RTFM seems inappropriate. The OP clearly did read
the owner's manual. He explained clearly why the oversight occurred.
The accident happened secondary to FAILURE of a device that is
designed SPECIFICALLY to protect against inevitable operator
oversight. There is no other reason that it exists.
This one's on Honda

Ron

 

It is not Hondas fault the OP is negligent and forgetful, in other words a
blundering fool. These sorts of things are _not_ inevitable, in fact most
people will never do what the OP did. Back in the '60s and earlier when
these devices didn't exist would it be Mercury's fault if your '67 Cougar
rolled over some children after you got out of the car and left it in drive,
not setting the brake? Of course not. Just because an auto maker tries to
protect you from your own stupid self doesn't make it their fault if their
'protect you from yourself' device fails. If you placed that same '67 Cougar
in park and set the parking brake and somehow the parking brake released or
the cable snapped _and_ the pawl in the transmission snapped it would then
be Mercury's fault.

Again, this was a case of someone doing something stupid... We all do stupid
things in our lives, some worse than others. What I don't understand is what
is so hard about taking responsibility for your own actions. I mean
honestly, Honda has no fault in this... This is between the OP and gravity,
but guess what, it's not gravity's fault that the OP didn't secure his car
properly before leaving it. Grow up and take some responsibility for your
own actions.

Cory

 

This is incredible! The OP should wake up to the fact that he made an
bewilderingly stupid series of errors and be thankful the only consequence
was some paint damage, instead he is looking to blame the vehicle makers.

 

Well... It is the 'American way'...

Rick

 

Me said for all posterity...

Bewilderingly stupid series of errors? No, just one error. Forgot
to put transmission selector in "Park" before removing the key.

Actually I'm more thankful it was late at night and no one got
hurt. Kids play in front of my house from time to time.

And as far as "blaming the vehicle makers" goes, what I said was:

"If the damn key hadn't come out last night, my bumper would still
look brand new. Anybody else's ignition switch work this way
(now)?"


Casey

I started with nothing. I still have most of it.

 

Actually two... You did not set the parking brake either. Not bewilderingly
stupid, just something that may easily happen to any of us. Admittedly I
have left my '67 and my '68 Galaxies in drive and turned them off (a few
times actually... It took me a while to remember to turn my lights off every
time too, when it wasn't really dark out that is), getting out of the car...
However I always use my parking brake as a simple matter of safety. It's a
good habit.

Since the '68 has a cheasy/cheap plastic prone-to-break neutral safety
switch I bypassed it (got a replacement, it broke after shifting twice... No
more left in the junkyard, apparently several other people have had this
problem too). Twice when I started the car I wondered why the engine RPM was
a bit lower than I had my cold idle set at, and why when I went to kick it
off high idle the engine barely revved and the car seemed to tilt/twist more
than normal from the torque. I then noticed it was in drive.

Good maintenance of my car (i.e. parking brake adjusted and working
properly) and good habits stopped the car from lurching forward when I
started it. I made a dumb mistake a few times when I was in a hurry or tired
or my mind just wasn't with my but thanks to my good habits I prevented any
potentially bad things from happening.

Good, I'm glad to hear no one was hurt. You still made a mistake though, no
big deal... It's just a car. You are to blame, but that isn't a big deal.

If you had put the car in park and/or set your parking brake your bumper
would still look brand new. Don't blame the key, place the blame on yourself
where it belongs... Just remember it's not a big deal and use the experience
to help you remember to put the car in park and set your parking brake.

Cory

 

It is not Hondas fault the OP is negligent and forgetful, in other words a

You and mike **** are idiots.

The OP's situation is no different than the following:

1) You forget to turn off the headlights and the battery drains. Usually, it
would be your fault, unless the car was equpped with auto-off feature. Guess
who pays for a new battery then? The manufactuer. Why? Because the feature
failed to do as advertised.

2) You drive recklessly while drunk.... hit a telephone pole....but the air-bag
fails to deploy and you suffer major injuries. Yes, it was stupid to drink &
drive and drive recklessly, but guess who will when you sue the manufactuer?

Remember Willie Shoemaker? He was driving drunk when he rolled his Ford
Exploder and became a paraplegic. He sued Ford and won, because the jury found
that the Exploders were unsafe and had a tendency to roll over.

As for the OP, the inability to take the key out of ignition while out of "P"
is a safety feature built in to this vehicle. When the key can be pulled out,
it means this safety feature MALFUNCTIONED. Unless Honda tells their customers
before they purchase the car that this feature is not included and/or they are
not responsible if it malfunctions, they are liable. Why do you think this
feature is built in to most vehicles? Because people often forget. Hell, I've
done it a few times too.




....................
I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.

 

Actually two... You did not set the parking brake either.

99.99% of the time, you shouldn't have to use it. If you park on a hill and
somehow the car rolls down the embankment and strikes people, you wouldn't be
responsible, unless its use was mandatory.

Again, it's NOT his fault!!!!!!!!

If he had left the car running and it rolled, then it would be.




....................
I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.

 

Read your statement: You say that this oversight is NOT inevitable,
but then contradict yourself by saying that "MOST" people will never
make this mistake. The point is exactly that. While MOST people
never will, when you have millions of drivers parking cars tens of
millions of times a day it is not only inevitable that it will happen,
but it's actually inevitable that it will happen many times every
single day.

Whoa! How in the world do you know that? Do you think that it was
just out of their boundless humanity that all auto makers began
installing this safeguard system???

It doesn't??? I guess ignorance can be bliss/

So you're saying that when a device in a car fails and someone is
hurt, it's the manufacturers fault? How very insightful of you! This
is exactly what the courts have found time after time after time.

Ahh, Cory, you're missing the point again. I happen to agree with you
on this one, but it has nothing to do with willingness to take
responsibility. It has everything to do with this country's
hopelessly pitiful state of tort law.


Ron

 

The main safety defect is the driver, who relied on a small pawl in
the tranny instead of the parking brake to secure the car.

My fave injuries are those to drivers who leave their car in park with
the engine running and then knock it into reverse as they exit and are
knocked down by the door and run over repeatedly. My local paper even
ran a big sob story the other year about some fool who thought he left
his farm truck in park with the engine running and was run over
several times by the damn thing after he got out. We got to read a big
story about how tough his injuries were and how hard it was for him to
recover. The whole ordeal would have been avoided by the fool if he
set the brake.

A personal injury lawyer may beg to differ, and might win his case in
court, but I'll still contend the largest safety defect in such a
situation is in the brain of the mope who failed to set the brake.

cheers,

 

I meant that it is not inevitable that it will happen to everyone. My point
was that most people will likely go through tehir entire life without
leaving the car in drive and getting out.

It's your own damned fault. If you were driving a vehicle that had no such
'safety feature' you would end up having the same result. It is _always_
solely your own responsibility to ensure your vehicle is safely parked. If
you fail to do that, regardless of any safety features, it's your fault.
Safety features are there just in case, in order to try to prevent it or
prevent it from getting worse. That does not remove the responsiblity from
yourself to operate your vehicle safely.

I'll say.

 

He's not responsible for the damage done to his car because he didn't set
the parking brake, he is responsible for it since he did not securely park
his car. He could have used the parking brake, putting the transmission in
park, chocking/blocking a wheel, or just letting it sit on a level surface.
He parked on an incline and did not secure his vehicle, so he is
responsible. If his car had a feature which engaged the parking brake
whenever the key was removed *then* the auto maker would be at fault, not
for something like thsi where in the end the responsibility lies on the
driver... The car is not supposed to put the transmission in park for him,
nor is it supposed to set the parking brake.

Okay, so if I park my Prelude, leave it in neutral and do not set the
parking brake, then the car rolls away and does damage or kills someone it
is not my fault? It sure as heck isn't Honda's fault. So whos fault is it?

 

He's not responsible for the damage done to his car because he didn't set

Not setting the parking brake is NOT against the law, unless posted. A car
should not be able to roll when its in "P" and the key removed. If it does,
then the manufactuer failed, not the owner.

Well, as far as I know, you shouldn't be able to pull your key out in "N"
either. If it does, then Honda would be liable.... unless they made it clear to
you (such as putting a warning lable on the dash) that that can happen.





....................
I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.

 

He did make a mistake. It was not "bewilderingly stupid" but rather a
very common error. So common that cars have long been designed to
make the error nearly impossible.

Most accidents do not have a single cause but rather are a chain of
failures. This is because we have built as much redundancy into the
systems as we can because the occupance of a single failure is much
too common. The driver should have made certain that the vehicle was
in Park. The key should not have been removable. Both are to blame
because eliminating either failure would have prevented the accident.
The driver is now (presumably) more careful about parking. Honda
needs to fix this interlock and all the others which have the same
design or manufacturing defect.