new Honda CR-V break in

Pardon me for asking a dumb question but does Mobil1 come in different
viscosities like 5W20, etc... ?

 

Pardon me for asking a dumb question but does Mobil1 come in different
viscosities like 5W20, etc... ?

 

how about this for a dumb:

"is your browser broken? can't you get mobil1.com"?

ridiculous attention-seeking.

 

how about this for a dumb:

"is your browser broken? can't you get mobil1.com"?

ridiculous attention-seeking.

 

Yes the damage was done when pressurized air blow torched through the valve. And
all of that happened as gas flowed out the cylinder. The rapid oxidation of the
iron in the valve produces tremendously high temperature so there is a runaway
reaction until the air that is feeding it reverses direction.

But after that event was over with, from then on gasses can flow in and out
the hole with very little effect to the valve because (after a few seconds of
cooling down) the valve is very much colder than normal.

The normal behavior of exhaust system dynamics becomes kaput when you put a hole
that size in the exhaust valve. The hole doesn't need to be that big to disrupt
the proper functioning of the cylinder and exhaust. A good bit of the cylinder
pressure is going to be lost during compression stroke and by the time it gets
around to the exhaust stroke there aint that much left. You are pretending the
gasses pushed out during the exhaust stroke would have the same inertia they would
have if the cylinder was working properly.
The hole in that cylinder exhaust valve is downstream from the other exhaust
ports and the flow from that exhaust port is less than the exhaust from the other
ports so there is nothing stopping the flow from higher pressure areas to where
there is less pressure.

Yeah right I'm supposed to look above at some dimwitted remark about you putting
fire hoses up your ass. You seem to be relying on an encyclopedic collection of
meaningless metaphors for your attempts to understand how the physical world works.

If there is a hole in the exhaust manifold there will be exhaust flowing in and
out of the hole due to the pulsating exhaust pressure. But much more gasses will be
flowing out than in because of the average internal pressure of the exhaust
manifold is higher than outside. That momentary low pressure that draws air into
the flow is what is referred to as scavenging . The hole in the valve won't be
much different than any other hole in the exhaust manifold.

No that is incorrect. If a hole in the valve is small enough that the cylinder can
still support combustion a Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor will show on average
higher than normal temp, due flames leaking past the valve.

Regardless of whether you hold the opinion that the cylinder is producing
power or not, if the sensor shows the exhaust temps are cold the valve is not
going to erode or wear any more. At that point the cylinder has stabilized and the
valve remains unchanged thereafter.

I know that if an exhaust valve does not have sufficient clearance it will get much
hotter than normal. And that can mean the valve will crack, fracture, warp or erode
away over time. But the end result of any of those scenarios will look much
different. And your feeble repetitions of the word "bullshit' doesn't change that
reality.

Nobody saw what happened,. But we can be sure that your guess can not be
correct, because valves that burn slowly don't look like that. Valve
manufacturers have done extensive failure analysis. Based on that analysis, some
folk's guesses are more educated than others.

Small engine manufactures are a good source for information on this because
when a single cylinder engine is running along fine and abruptly stops running and
you open it up and find a valve that looks it has been flame cut with a torch there
is much less room for guessing as to what happened. Both Briggs and Kohler blame
this type of valve burnout on a chance encounter of combustion chamber carbon
deposits and the exhaust valve seat.

 

Yes the damage was done when pressurized air blow torched through the valve. And
all of that happened as gas flowed out the cylinder. The rapid oxidation of the
iron in the valve produces tremendously high temperature so there is a runaway
reaction until the air that is feeding it reverses direction.

But after that event was over with, from then on gasses can flow in and out
the hole with very little effect to the valve because (after a few seconds of
cooling down) the valve is very much colder than normal.

The normal behavior of exhaust system dynamics becomes kaput when you put a hole
that size in the exhaust valve. The hole doesn't need to be that big to disrupt
the proper functioning of the cylinder and exhaust. A good bit of the cylinder
pressure is going to be lost during compression stroke and by the time it gets
around to the exhaust stroke there aint that much left. You are pretending the
gasses pushed out during the exhaust stroke would have the same inertia they would
have if the cylinder was working properly.
The hole in that cylinder exhaust valve is downstream from the other exhaust
ports and the flow from that exhaust port is less than the exhaust from the other
ports so there is nothing stopping the flow from higher pressure areas to where
there is less pressure.

Yeah right I'm supposed to look above at some dimwitted remark about you putting
fire hoses up your ass. You seem to be relying on an encyclopedic collection of
meaningless metaphors for your attempts to understand how the physical world works.

If there is a hole in the exhaust manifold there will be exhaust flowing in and
out of the hole due to the pulsating exhaust pressure. But much more gasses will be
flowing out than in because of the average internal pressure of the exhaust
manifold is higher than outside. That momentary low pressure that draws air into
the flow is what is referred to as scavenging . The hole in the valve won't be
much different than any other hole in the exhaust manifold.

No that is incorrect. If a hole in the valve is small enough that the cylinder can
still support combustion a Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor will show on average
higher than normal temp, due flames leaking past the valve.

Regardless of whether you hold the opinion that the cylinder is producing
power or not, if the sensor shows the exhaust temps are cold the valve is not
going to erode or wear any more. At that point the cylinder has stabilized and the
valve remains unchanged thereafter.

I know that if an exhaust valve does not have sufficient clearance it will get much
hotter than normal. And that can mean the valve will crack, fracture, warp or erode
away over time. But the end result of any of those scenarios will look much
different. And your feeble repetitions of the word "bullshit' doesn't change that
reality.

Nobody saw what happened,. But we can be sure that your guess can not be
correct, because valves that burn slowly don't look like that. Valve
manufacturers have done extensive failure analysis. Based on that analysis, some
folk's guesses are more educated than others.

Small engine manufactures are a good source for information on this because
when a single cylinder engine is running along fine and abruptly stops running and
you open it up and find a valve that looks it has been flame cut with a torch there
is much less room for guessing as to what happened. Both Briggs and Kohler blame
this type of valve burnout on a chance encounter of combustion chamber carbon
deposits and the exhaust valve seat.

 

for ordinary iron, oxidation is strongly exothermic, yes. but ordinary
iron is no good at corrosion or heat resistance, so what are valves made
of, dipshit?

clue:
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:mHuWrsMToYUJ:www.gsvalves.co.uk/technical_information.htm+nimonic+exhaust+valve&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

but the freakin' gases aren't dipshit! besides, valves burn slowly -
see above.

so exhaust gasses are suddenly going to flood upstream - glad you could
re-write the entire book on flow dynamics and clear that up!

bravo. oh, btw, that's not "exhaust gas dilution".

no, you are pretending that exhaust gas flows upstream!

eh? have you ever seen a honda manifold? you can't have to make a
statement like that.

straw clutching drivel. what you /can/ get is a pressure wave, but that
is not exhaust flow. but you'd know that if you had the slightest clue.

no, dipshit. does hydraulic fluid need to flow to transmit pressure???
of course not. neither does your phantom upstream flowing exhaust
gas. similarly, with a brake line, once you do get flow [open a bleed
valve], what happens to pressure???

[i blame [y]our education [system].]

except that a hole in the manifold is downstream, and an exhaust valve
is upstream!

bullshit. combustion temperature is a function of compression. as
compression decreases, so does combustion temp. basic thermodynamics.

you are slowly getting there, except that it's not anywhere that simple.
at low exchange rates, i.e. low rpm, there is more time to establish
equilibrium, and thus tend towards zero pressure differential. however,
as rpm's increase, there isn't, thus combustion continues to occur, and
valves continue to burn for quite some time after symptoms first appear.
"stabilization" is long and slow, not "milliseconds" as you were
previously guessing.

cracking is almost unheard of. fracture is what happens after cracking.
warping is a function of temperature or loading - and warping is not a
factor in valve burn. erosion is caused by gas leakage due to failure
to close properly, or by a valve defect.

the "reality" that you clearly don't understand???

hey, you never saw that guy get shot, so that bullet hole didn't kill him!

or is the whole point of analysis to examine the physical evidence so
you /do/ know what happened??? [rhetorical]

bullshit! dude, not only are you hopelessly undereducated on this stuff
[which would be curable if you weren't so closed], your problem is that
you refuse to learn, analyze, or even begin to seek out what it doesn't
know. thus, you're not merely ignorant, you're actually stoooopid.

and some folk not only fiercely resist learning a damned thing, they
actually guess and bullshit, just for the sake of hearing their own voice!

briggs and kohler both have huge combustion technology and metallurgical
r&d facilities and make their own valves don't they. oh, wait, no they
don't... you don't work for one of them do you?

 

for ordinary iron, oxidation is strongly exothermic, yes. but ordinary
iron is no good at corrosion or heat resistance, so what are valves made
of, dipshit?

clue:
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:mHuWrsMToYUJ:www.gsvalves.co.uk/technical_information.htm+nimonic+exhaust+valve&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

but the freakin' gases aren't dipshit! besides, valves burn slowly -
see above.

so exhaust gasses are suddenly going to flood upstream - glad you could
re-write the entire book on flow dynamics and clear that up!

bravo. oh, btw, that's not "exhaust gas dilution".

no, you are pretending that exhaust gas flows upstream!

eh? have you ever seen a honda manifold? you can't have to make a
statement like that.

straw clutching drivel. what you /can/ get is a pressure wave, but that
is not exhaust flow. but you'd know that if you had the slightest clue.

no, dipshit. does hydraulic fluid need to flow to transmit pressure???
of course not. neither does your phantom upstream flowing exhaust
gas. similarly, with a brake line, once you do get flow [open a bleed
valve], what happens to pressure???

[i blame [y]our education [system].]

except that a hole in the manifold is downstream, and an exhaust valve
is upstream!

bullshit. combustion temperature is a function of compression. as
compression decreases, so does combustion temp. basic thermodynamics.

you are slowly getting there, except that it's not anywhere that simple.
at low exchange rates, i.e. low rpm, there is more time to establish
equilibrium, and thus tend towards zero pressure differential. however,
as rpm's increase, there isn't, thus combustion continues to occur, and
valves continue to burn for quite some time after symptoms first appear.
"stabilization" is long and slow, not "milliseconds" as you were
previously guessing.

cracking is almost unheard of. fracture is what happens after cracking.
warping is a function of temperature or loading - and warping is not a
factor in valve burn. erosion is caused by gas leakage due to failure
to close properly, or by a valve defect.

the "reality" that you clearly don't understand???

hey, you never saw that guy get shot, so that bullet hole didn't kill him!

or is the whole point of analysis to examine the physical evidence so
you /do/ know what happened??? [rhetorical]

bullshit! dude, not only are you hopelessly undereducated on this stuff
[which would be curable if you weren't so closed], your problem is that
you refuse to learn, analyze, or even begin to seek out what it doesn't
know. thus, you're not merely ignorant, you're actually stoooopid.

and some folk not only fiercely resist learning a damned thing, they
actually guess and bullshit, just for the sake of hearing their own voice!

briggs and kohler both have huge combustion technology and metallurgical
r&d facilities and make their own valves don't they. oh, wait, no they
don't... you don't work for one of them do you?

 

The reaction of the iron in exhaust valves with oxygen is every bit as
exothermic as the iron in mild steel. The alloys used in valves are
designed so that type of reaction normally can't happen, but your valve
is evidence that it does happen. Your valve can be easily cut with a
torch. Ask a welder to show you how.

 

The reaction of the iron in exhaust valves with oxygen is every bit as
exothermic as the iron in mild steel. The alloys used in valves are
designed so that type of reaction normally can't happen, but your valve
is evidence that it does happen. Your valve can be easily cut with a
torch. Ask a welder to show you how.

 

Mobil 1 does come in 5W20. That's what I run in my CRV. For a long time
that was the only choice for that weight. Its starting to appear in other
brands now also.

 

Mobil 1 does come in 5W20. That's what I run in my CRV. For a long time
that was the only choice for that weight. Its starting to appear in other
brands now also.

 

/what/ iron in exhaust valves? you evidently didn't bother to read the
exhaust valve alloy cite i gave you. you still carefully snipped it though.

what is the ignition temperature of Fe vs. Ni, Co, Cr, etc.? how are
you going to get your exothermic reaction sustained if you can't
actually /start/ it?

and what is going to happen if you start this reaction and keep
supplying oxygen to it? how much valve do you think you're going to
have left at the end?

that is indeed true!!! and, of course, it directly contradicts your
drivel above.

gas erosion != oxidation!

no, /you/ need to see it. or rather, /not/ see it. you're simply
guessing and hoping i don't know any better. you should actually try
this stuff yourself if you don't want to get it wrong and make yourself
look like such a horse's ass.

 

/what/ iron in exhaust valves? you evidently didn't bother to read the
exhaust valve alloy cite i gave you. you still carefully snipped it though.

what is the ignition temperature of Fe vs. Ni, Co, Cr, etc.? how are
you going to get your exothermic reaction sustained if you can't
actually /start/ it?

and what is going to happen if you start this reaction and keep
supplying oxygen to it? how much valve do you think you're going to
have left at the end?

that is indeed true!!! and, of course, it directly contradicts your
drivel above.

gas erosion != oxidation!

no, /you/ need to see it. or rather, /not/ see it. you're simply
guessing and hoping i don't know any better. you should actually try
this stuff yourself if you don't want to get it wrong and make yourself
look like such a horse's ass.

 

The Oil Change specials at every place I have been to cover 5w20.

 

The Oil Change specials at every place I have been to cover 5w20.

 

I didn't see anything on that web page that would suggest your valves
are not mostly made of iron. you can google all you want, but the main
constituent of your valve is still iron.

Well you don't need to ignite the protective layer which is mostly
composed of Cr. All you need to do is change it so that the air can get
to the iron.

Yes if there is more air it will eat a lot farther. I've seen that.

that only means there is evidence that an abnormal condition where it
can happen was met.

The metal was molten and it got quite a bit hotter than any of the
gasses present. You may be able to find some slag. A slow erosion of
the valve would look different. Another way a valve can lose a lot a
metal is if chunk breaks off. But that also is going to look obviously
different.

Guessing? at what?

 

I didn't see anything on that web page that would suggest your valves
are not mostly made of iron. you can google all you want, but the main
constituent of your valve is still iron.

Well you don't need to ignite the protective layer which is mostly
composed of Cr. All you need to do is change it so that the air can get
to the iron.

Yes if there is more air it will eat a lot farther. I've seen that.

that only means there is evidence that an abnormal condition where it
can happen was met.

The metal was molten and it got quite a bit hotter than any of the
gasses present. You may be able to find some slag. A slow erosion of
the valve would look different. Another way a valve can lose a lot a
metal is if chunk breaks off. But that also is going to look obviously
different.

Guessing? at what?

 

"you can google all you want, but the main constituent of your valve is
still iron"

translation: "you don't agree with facts, so you're just going to ignore
them". way to go dude.

/what/ fucking iron, dipshit?

no, you've seen the result of a valve that's been eroded for longer, not
one that has exothermally ignited.

yeah, so "abnormal", it contradicts all your other bullshit!

bullshit!!! when you change state, you hit an isothermal. and you're
in a jet stream. how the **** are you going to heat any metal beyond
liquidus when it's getting blown away? and let's simply ignore the fact
that we're looking at more refractory metals here.

[i /know/ you don't know what "refractory" means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractory_metals]

do you even know what "slag" is? [rhetorical]

"would" look different? so you're just guessing!

of course, if you were experienced, knew what you were talking about and
had evidence, you'd take pics of the ones you have that are different,
and post them. free pic hosting at flickr, picasa, tinypic, etc..

how big is "a chunk"? 1 micron? 10? 1000? "just enough so that gas
erosion can take hold"?

"cut with a torch" is just guessing, and guessing wrong. valves are not
soft iron, they are refractory alloys. you can't just cut them like you
do soft iron. you'd know this if you were actually speaking from
experience or had even bothered to read the cites i keep giving you and
were not simply guessing. idiot.

 

"you can google all you want, but the main constituent of your valve is
still iron"

translation: "you don't agree with facts, so you're just going to ignore
them". way to go dude.

/what/ fucking iron, dipshit?

no, you've seen the result of a valve that's been eroded for longer, not
one that has exothermally ignited.

yeah, so "abnormal", it contradicts all your other bullshit!

bullshit!!! when you change state, you hit an isothermal. and you're
in a jet stream. how the **** are you going to heat any metal beyond
liquidus when it's getting blown away? and let's simply ignore the fact
that we're looking at more refractory metals here.

[i /know/ you don't know what "refractory" means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractory_metals]

do you even know what "slag" is? [rhetorical]

"would" look different? so you're just guessing!

of course, if you were experienced, knew what you were talking about and
had evidence, you'd take pics of the ones you have that are different,
and post them. free pic hosting at flickr, picasa, tinypic, etc..

how big is "a chunk"? 1 micron? 10? 1000? "just enough so that gas
erosion can take hold"?

"cut with a torch" is just guessing, and guessing wrong. valves are not
soft iron, they are refractory alloys. you can't just cut them like you
do soft iron. you'd know this if you were actually speaking from
experience or had even bothered to read the cites i keep giving you and
were not simply guessing. idiot.