Need feedback on new car purchase

Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
itself, and
of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
destination
charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer add-on
ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings or
other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)

When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great.
Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears
from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this
month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback?
Thanks!

 

(Space Chimp) wrote in

Just tell 'em you don't want the junk, mean it, and be prepared to
walk away.

 

As Nancy Reagan advised, Just Say No.

In Georgia, the new car dealers all have a "Documentation/Title" line
preprinted on the sales form with an amount between $295 and $595 in the $
column also preprinted. They tell you, that's part of the contract, it can't
be changed and it's to get the title for you.

Well horse hockey. Take the form, draw a line through that entry, initial it
and hand the paper back to the sales weasel.

Tell him that after your check clears, you want the Manufacturer's Statement
of Origin (MSO). In Georgia, you take the MSO to the DMV office, hand them
$18 and they mail you the title in a week or two. Next you take the bill of
sale to the tag office five them about $10 and they hand you your nice new
tag. You do have to bolt it onto the car yourself though ;-)

So much for high dollar "documentation" fees. If the dealer won't agree to
that approach, politely thank the man for his time and the test drive-- then
get up and leave.

My experience has been that somewhere between their front door and where
your car is in their parking lot, the sales guy will come chasing out after
you and tell you the sales manager has reconsidered.....

 

It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like
"doc fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it
is non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can
come up with all sorts of creative names.

Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer
price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just
add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's
really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords.

What state are you in?

 

I usually dicker for the bottom line price and let them fill in the
blanks. Course you have to do your homework to keep from being screwed
(too badly). In you case though, if you don't like the deal just walk
and see what happens. If their profit is great enough they will knock
the amount off. If not they will let you walk. You can always walk
back later (don't wait too long) and pay the price if you love the car
badly enough...

 

Find the car you want, then negociate for the bottom line price.
Dont stop with one dealer. Some are probably hungrier to make
a sale than others.

You can get some ideas of what the car SHOULD cost through
some of the magazines or web publications which deal with
auto costs.

A "dealers invoice", by the way, means little or nothing with respect
to the cost of the car.

 

You're getting ripped off. The only "fee" I paid was the "delivery
fee" and $15 messenger for title. No dealer prep. No rust proofing,
clearcoat protectant, etc.

 

I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it
was educational.

Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out
prices:

'08 Accord EX (black) $23,134
'09 Accord EX $24,043

Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good
to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably
buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me.
(BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to
him already.)

 

I've not bought a lot of cars from dealers (mostly beaters) but when I
have bought from a dealer, I bring a calculator. Figure out what I'm
willing to pay for the car, add tax and give THAT to the sales guy. I
don't care if there's $700 in prep, $200 in misc fees, $4300 for a
haircut for the sales manager's dog, as long as the GRAND TOTAL for the
car is equal or less than what I'm willing to pay.

I bought my Subaru that way - they said the $300 doc fee was
non-negotiable, I told them I didn't care as long as the car was no more
than $15k after tax. It came out to $15,080 and that ended up being
close enough - I wanted the car and it had had the clutch replaced.
(During the first test drive the clutch was slipping so badly I was
wondering if my wife had forgotten how to drive and she was wondering
WTF subaru did with clutches. They replaced the clutch and called me
but now the price was non-negotiable, so I said, "see ya" and walked. A
month later the car was still there and we worked out a price. But, you
have to be willing to walk.)

I have found that listing YOUR price is way easier than when they start
talking "well it's $387 every 9 days for 18 years" because no two
salesguys ever use the same interval, and I just want to know how much
the damn car costs. Was car shopping with my mom a couple of years ago
and she wanted to look at a new Hyundai Accent (blech) and it took 45
flipping minutes to answer this question "How much is the sticker price
on THIS car?" Needless to say she didn't buy it...and not just because
Hyundai sucks.

Ray

 

Yeah, and isn't it strange how the total came out just a wee bit
over you max price.... Well, let me quack about what happened
to me at the dealership.

Wife and I got there, and loved the black '08 Accord EX so much that
we decided that was the boy we wanted. The salesman mentioned
that we were getting some good stuff for free since it had a great
looking spoiler, along with some pin striping. The car was a beaut,
there's no doubt about it. I drove it; drove great as expected.
We go to his little office, I fill out form, and even write out
the check for the quoted amount. Weellllllll, the salesman then
walks into another office, and stays awhile. Another dude
soon shows. I'm beginning to smell the old-style bait
and switch routine. And surely be, there was a bit
of a problem. The young dude tells me that there was a
misunderstanding and that THAT car (because of spoiler
and pin striping) could not be sold at that price. It was
just a mistake understand. He then told me they could get
an identical car (w/o spoiler and pin striping) from a sister
dlship in about two hours, and when he saw I was putting
away my checkbook and beginning to walk, he added they
would knock off $200 more for my trouble. Truth is,
I don't think that would've been a bad deal for me at all,
but I was so pissed at their tactic of waiting to tell me this
at the very LAST minute that it made it moot, as far as I
was concerned. We walked. I may well have walked
away from a great deal, but we walked, and we don't
regret it. Do you guys think I made a good decision?
I'm checking with some other dealerships now. These
tactics really cause me to shun them. Maybe I'm too
persnikity or something, but I hate games like this.


- I wanted the car and it had had the clutch replaced.

 

This reminds me of the movie "Fargo" when a couple were buying a car from a
dealer. William Macy was the salesman and kept pushing undercoating. While
dickering over the car he would say, "let me go check it out with my
manager". He would then go into his office, spit out a howdy and not even
mention the deal and then go back out to the couple and tell them that the
manager said this or that. It was a hoot.

 

Weellllllll, the salesman then

Depends on the amount of the overrun. That second carpimp was
scamming you. But if it were only a couple hundred bucks or so,
maybe it was a decent deal.

I believe in "principle", but also you have to think in terms of dollars.

I wouldnt be surprised if they called you back in a couple of days
and tried to "make up".

You havent burned any bridges. This is a poker game. Keep a
straight face and keep in the game.

 

So do I and I would have walked out as well. If you give in that just
encourages them to do the same thing to the next guy that comes in.

Steve B.

 

Yeah. I've always done that. We walk in with a folder full of papers
that we've printed from all over the place. And tell them "okay, this
is what the check will read".

Nasty trick department: Print the comparison page from Edmunds and
highlight one of the other cars. Put that on the top of the stack in
your folder and take it out while you rummage through the other
papers. Make him sneak a peek with it upside down to him. Sometimes
it works, at the least it tells him you have a solid grasp on what you
are willing to pay.

And always, always walk away when things go south.

 

Presumably that's for the V6, or it's about $2500 too high.

Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume
you'll finance, up until the last moment.

Amusing about black being cheaper, as it's the same where I am. They'll
advertise "6 in stock at this price" and they'll all be black, an
they'll try to get $750 more for the other colors (and they'll settle
for $375, at least Autowest Toyota in Fremont would.

 

Hey, do tell. These were not for the V6, but the other dealerships
are not willing to match these prices, and they apparently don't
care if I walk. I'll be glad to pay the above if it's offered again.
If not, I won't buy....don't really need the car that much anyway.

And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed
to non-cash price at the last moment?

He said at first there was a black and white '08, but he later
said the white one sold. We saw one of the '09's on the
lot yesterday for the stated driveout price. It was a
nice light green, and just off the truck.

 

Why's that? (seriously, why?)

Ray
(hoping to learn a new trick)

 

Because if you get the financeing thru the dealer, they make more $ on
the financing than on the sale of the car.

 

Thus spake (Rich Greenberg) :

Not right now.

 

The car salespeople laugh at those that come in with all those printouts
and spreadsheets thinking that it'll help. They do this every day. You
do it once every 6-12 years. They especially like people that bargain up
from the invoice, since selling at invoice is already a huge profit for
them.

Have the material, but make your price offers from memory. Always make
it a non-round number and let _them_ ask how you arrived at it, don't
offer the information. When you offer $16,709 rather than $16,700 it
puts them on the defensive, trying to figure out where the heck you came
up with that number, when in fact you made it up out of thin air. Be
vague. Mumble about other dealers, other vehicles, Costco,
advertisements for dealers in other metro areas, and so on.

Let them talk about monthly payments, and draw their diagrams with the
four boxes. Inquire about financing, extended warranties, pin-striping,
gold packages, undercoating, glass etching, fabric guard, digital ash
trays, alarms, etc. Bring a sandwich and ask them to get you a
complimentary soda.

Watch "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2bpsyfJJt4".