More CR-V Fires!

The count for Honda CR-V fires is now up to 60. How many more have to burn
before Honda issues a recall ?

USA Today
Sept. 9, 2004 08:23 AM


Honda, which has reports of 60 fires from oil-filter leaks in some CR-V
sport-utility vehicles, plans to step up communication with its dealers and
remind all oil-change shops of proper service procedures.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration closed a preliminary
investigation July 1 despite 22 reports of fires after oil changes in 2003
CR-Vs. Honda said at the time it was notifying dealers that the oil filters
could stick and oil drips could cause a fire if the work wasn't done
properly.

Since then, the agency and automaker have become aware of 38 more fires. All
but 10 of the incidents occurred before mid-July, and all but one were in
'03 and '04 models. The exception was a single fire in a 2002 model, the
year the vehicle was redesigned.

Spokesman Andy Boyd says Honda did not change manufacturing or repair
procedures for the '03 and '04 models and is looking into whether there were
flaws with the filters or how they were installed. The fires have occurred
only when original filters were in place.

It has no explanation for why repair work could suddenly go so wrong for the
more recent versions of the redesigned CR-V. Says Bill Willen, Honda's
managing counsel: "It 'is' unusual."

NHTSA says that if service technicians failed to remove the old seals when
changing oil filters, oil leaks from stacked or otherwise damaged seals
could cause exhaust-system fires. The CR-V's exhaust manifold is positioned
in a way that makes it easier for leaking oil to hit it, Honda says.

There are about 290,000 2003-04 CR-Vs on the road. Honda recommends oil and
oil-filter changes every 10,000 miles, but Boyd says some customers have the
work done at about 5,000 miles.

NHTSA is monitoring Honda's response to the problem and could reopen the
investigation or negotiate a recall. But the agency believes it is a
technician error.

The Washington Post has reported that several CR-V owners had narrow escapes
from fiery vehicles, although, Boyd says, smoke should provide enough
warning for people to get away from vehicles safely. No injuries have been
reported, though at least two owners have filed lawsuits against Honda over
the problem.

Before its decision this week to notify all independent lube shops and
increase communication with dealers, Honda had notified all of its dealers
and included information in its quarterly publication for independent shops,
which will be distributed next month.

"We're not looking to downplay customer concerns, but in a certain sense,
this is a self-curing issue," says Boyd. "Looking underneath and making sure
there's nothing stuck underneath the (engine) block is standard operating
procedure, and with very few exceptions, dealers are doing it."

 

Why should honda issuse a recall?

The tech is just forgetting to remove the rubber seal on the oil filter? On
all filters it happens from time to time. NOT just Honda. Remember the
person doing the oil change is most likely some 'kid' just starting out.

 

so, other than the fact that usa today are suckered into running another
story that serves the protectionist interests of domestic car makers and
what used to be their highly profitable suv niche, where's the news?

events occurred before july. nhtsa still inactive. so why the
astroturf big guy?

[astroturf = fake grass - term also used to describe fake "grass roots
public opinion" generated by interest groups posing as ordinary members
of the public]

 

a recall to do what? change everyones oil filters? if they cant figure
out how to check for stuck gasket material now, what makes you think a
recall will change things?

yet another reason i will always change my own oil.

 

Recall the technicians?

 

The only Honda owners getting excited about this are those that don't
change their own oil. I've purchased 3 Hondas new and they all had the
old oil filter gasket stick to the block during the first oil change.
You have to make sure the old gasket is still with the filter when you
take it off, otherwise, reach up there and pull it off the block.

 

anyone too stupid to not check that the gasket came off with the filter should
not be doing an oil change. this can happen with any car if you are not
careful.

 

wouldnt this be, maybe, possibly... a crappy fram designed oil filter
problem? possibly a badly glued rubber band ring, instead of an o-ring?
id be in the supplier's ass about it.

 

I imagine Honda probably is. I doubt they're very impressed with the bad
publicity for one of their best selling vehicles.

 

This has been happening ever since there were oil filters. I'm not sure why
the honda is taking a beating here, all cars have this problem. Although,
most don't catch on fire, just leak and smell.

 

Too true. It's not a design problem like the idiot screaming for a recall
are claiming. It's a retarded service tech issue. Personally, I wouldn't
blame Honda, I'd just sue the hell out of the dealer.

 

I agree its not a significant design problem warranting a recall, but why
does Honda insist on putting the oil filter above the exhaust and accessible
only from underneath the car on their 4 cylinder engines? At the least its
an unnecessary hassle when changing the filter, and I suspect there are a
lot of Hondas out there with filters that have never been changed because of
the location.

 

Listen, I am not an idiot! If you read the NHSTA report you will find that
some filtrers had distorted or pinched seals, so it's not only a stacked
seal problem! Secondly, fires also occured at Honda dealers who used
original Honda filters! Furthermore, why isn't this happening in the
earlier year CR-Vs? Why can't Honda simply put some kind of barrier between
the oil pan and the exhaust to prevent further problems? In most vehicles,
the worst that can happen is oil on your driveway, not a fire! What is
peace of mind worth? No who's the idiot--Sean?

 

I think that might be the point: An argument could easily be made for
not situating an opening that could potentially leak a flammable liquid
directly over a hot exhaust pipe. People are often sloppy--sad but true.
Placing an oil filter over the exhaust seems kinda dumb to me.

 

on my 4 cyl honda, its below and to the left of the intake. the exhaust
is on the front side.

 

But, that same "retarded service tech" is working on a myriad of other
cars and there doesn't seem to be a problem with them.

I think there is a problem with the design of the CRV, if only that
there's a flammable area right below where the oil can drip, due to this
supposed wide spread service tech error...that only seems to occur with
one model Honda.

The internet has changed how people can gather info. If a company sees a
pattern, like Toyota did with the sludge issue and Honda has with the
tranny issue, and they move quickly to satisfy its customer, they're
much better off than allowing the complaints to grow.

Honda needs to address this growing issue and why it's this one model.

 

"growing issue"??? the only thing that's "growing" is the amount of hot
air generated on this group. or your susceptibility to fearmongering.
read the stats.

 

I for one see no "fear mongering." The stats speak for themselves: Unless these
fires are happening at the same rate with other vehicles, there is legitimate
cause for concern.

 

if it was "continuing to happen" in the light of techs being told to
sharpen up their act, then yes, it's an issue. but otherwise, it's not.

example: left hand wheel nuts on cars are theoretically dangerous
because they have a tendency to loosen. but, if technicians do what
they're told and tighten to the correct torque, then we almost never see
a wheel drop off a car. this is a deliberately contentious example:
have you /ever/ seen anyone question manufacturers lack of willingness
to use left handed threads on cars like they do on big rigs, even though
it would be safer? and i'll bet you the number of fatalities each year
for light vehicle wheel separation vastly exceeds the number of driveway
fires from crv's.

bottom line, since honda & nhtsa have sent out their maintenance
directives, and those that have followed them have not had any problems,
then there's not an issue. people just need to follow the specified
instructions, just like not using engine oil in the braking system or
using brake fluid to polish the paint..... idiot-proofing can only go
so far. not checking gaskets or mopping spilled oil are in that same
category!

 

1) I'd need to see an official report on this.

2) Are there *special* steps that are now necessary when changing the oil in
this particular model of car? If so, this is a sufficiently big deal that I
still see no fear-mongering. How certain are you that all techs. now know about
this, hm?

People are right to be concerned. Until further notice, I think it's entirely
fair to call this a safety issue about which owners should be aware.