Mileage question

2001 civic. I cleaned and oiled the K&N filter and have gotten poor
mileage since then. Is it possible to over oil these and slow down
air flow. I also had to drill out th three front screws that hold
down the air cleaner cover an replaced with nut/flange bolt config and
got the cover secure again, I assume this would not be the problem?

 

wrote in 19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:

It IS possible to over-oil it and foul the throttle body, the idle air
control valve, the intake air temperature sensor, and the fast idle thermo
valve. These are critical components and are very expensive to replace.

Why on earth would you put such junk on your car in the first place?
Because it looks "kewl"?

Check out this test:
http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
Once you read this, you'll want to hastily retreat to the safety of OEM
parts.

 

Very interesting report. I wish they had included the Fram filter as
that seems to be the one sold by most auto parts stores. I also
wonder if there would have been any difference in the outcome if they
had tested filters for gasoline engines instead of diesels. I use the
Fram in my Jeep, but don't know what the Honda dealer is using in our
2003 Accord V-6. Guess I should take a look!

Dick

 

Kinda pisses me off about the K&N filter. Anything I found before I
bought was very positive. I would like to have seen FRAM as well. I
guess you trade off for one or the other. Cleaner air and more
restricted flow, or dirtier air and free flow!

 

wrote in

That's exactly it.

Remember that K&N originated as a RACING filter.

When you're racing, you're trying for every last ounce of power you can
possibly coax out of the engine, and you don't much care if the motor blows
up six inches past the finish line.

A road car generally runs under fairly light loads, is expected to last as
long as possible, and is expected to start and run reliably on command. It
is supposed to be an appliance that gets you from A to B with a minimum of
fuss.

The best thing you can do is use an OEM air filter. And don't change it
/too/ often.

 

You are also at Wide Open Throttle quite a bit. While it *may* be
possible that the OEM paper filter will inhibit air flow at WOT at
typical everyday throttle settings a K&N can't provide any advantage
over reasonably clean paper. The engine's getting all the air it can
use.

"too often?" why not change it as often as you want so long as you
don't leave it in over 30K miles? Can paper be too clean? I don't
think so.

 

There is an SAE paper on this subject. According to this paper, changing
the air filter too often doubles engine wear.

I quote Ed White, in alt.autos.toyota, Sept 26th:

"The SAE paper by Marty Barris (SAE Technical Paper No. 952557 titled:
'Total FiltrationTM: The Influence of Filter Selection on Engine Wear,
Emissions and Performance' ) offers two important conclusions:
a.. "The level of ambient dust concentration can easily overwhelm other
factors in terms of influence on engine wear. It is therefore important to
match the air intake filtration system design to the anticipated ambient
exposure. And here's an interesting one-:
b.. "Too frequent air filter change intervals can double engine wear
rate,
especially if changed within the first 30% of the air filter's life.
"The practice of removing an air filter element to blow it clean is plain
stupid. This malpractice, which can lead to engine wear rates being
trebled,
still occurs on the false economy basis of trying to extend the service
life
of the air filter element. A well meaning but badly trained technician
thinks he is being thorough in servicing the air filter, or replacing it
prior to reaching the optimum life of the element. This happens in
workshops
without supervisors even being aware of it."

Also see:

http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html
http://www.visteon.com/utils/whitepapers/2005_01_1139.pdf
http://www.donaldson.com/en/filtermedia/support/datalibrary/052024.pdf

 

snip
Can paper be too clean? I don't

I stand corrected. The answer to my question is yes, the paper can be
too clean.

 

I'd seen that before, a while back. I am curious if the filters
tested were new (I would assume so). K&N specifically says their filtering
will improve over time as the filter collects more dust. One can always
debate how much difference that would make, but it would be an interesting
comparison.


- Steve Yates
- If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

~ Taglines by Taglinator - www.srtware.com ~

 

....so if you leave it in long enough, you *might* begin to approach the
filtering efficiency of an OEM filter.

For f***'s sake. Just buy an OEM filter to begin with.

Do you want an engine that lasts a long time but makes 2hp less, or do you
want an engine that get 2hp more but burns oil at 100K miles? You decide.

 

Most filters improve efficiency (dirt trapping) as they fill up with
dirt. If you study the test, you will see that the filters are new at
the start. They are fed air and dirt at a carefully controlled rate
and the air restriction is measured until a predetermined limit is
reached indicating end of life. Then the dirt filtered and passed are
weighed.

The results of the test indicate that the K&N filter would need three
clean and use cycles in the time the AC filter was used up and during
that time it would have passed 18 times more dirt into the engine. The
K&N filter is significantly less restrictive initially, but at the end
of its life it is actually more restrictive than the paper filters at
that point. Thus to get the full benefits of the low restriction, you
must clean it even more often and further (perhaps greatly) decrease
the overall efficiency of filtration. Unless you are driving a race
car, the hassle and risk don't seem worth it.