Manual Transmission Fluid Change - Photos???

Hi, I was wondering if anyone knew a place online where I can find
photos of a manual transmission fluid change. Seems like a simple
request, but I've been unable to find it anywhere. When looking at
the Honda Service Manual, it has an exploded Trans Housing view and an
underside view of the trans, but there's no correlation between the
two, as they are from completely different perspectives (the exploded
trans view looks to be from the top down and the bolt view seems to be
from the bottom up...). The Owner's Manual isn't much more help. All
of these drawings are inconclusive as far as where to expect to find
the bolts.

I'm smart enough to know that the trans is on the passenger side and
that I should be looking just behind the axle, other than that,
though, it's anyone's guess and I really don't want to remove the
wrong bolt.

Can anyone point me toward an online view of the location of the
filler and drain bolts?

My thanks, in advance,

Brian

PS - If there's a simple tutorial on how to get under the car and add
the fluid without jacking the car up, that'd be welcome, too!

 

What year and model?

Use www.bkhondaparts.com for drawings that often help. E.g.

http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/jsp/prddisplay.jsp?catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=1993&catcgry3=4DR+DX&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=MT++++++TRANSMISSION+HOUSING&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=Transmission&prdrefno=&quantity=0&act=&count=0&hidSwitch=&hidIrno=

Buy some clear rubber hose at Home Depot or Lowe's for
filling the tranny.

You need new washers for the drain and fill bolts.

 

Scroll down at the following site for a really good photo:
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?cmd=print&id=851521

 

Sorry, thought I'd sent that - it's a 2002 Civic EX Coupe.

Brian

 

wrote in :

You MUST raise the car. There is simply not enough room if you leave it
on the ground. Plus the car __MUST__ be level when you perform the
procedure, so simply hoisting one wheel won't do it.

Look at the flat, vertical transmission surface that points towards the
right front wheel. Towards the very bottom there is a round-headed bolt
that has a square hole in it. That's the drain bolt. Immediately above
that is a 19mm hex-headed bolt. That's the fill hole. The hole is big
enough that you can stick your fingertip in there to feel for the oil
level, exactly like on a 1908 Ford Model-T.

Use a pick of some sort to remove any and all crud from the square hole
in the round bolt. You want to make certain the 3/8" drive on your
ratchet seats snugly and does not slip! Do NOT round off that square
hole!

Auto parts places sell cheap pumps that screw into a gallon jug. They
look sort of like the pumps you find on jugs of hand soap, or the
ketchup dispensers at McDonalds. These pumps come with hoses that go
into the new oil supply and into the tranny fill bolt hole.

Be CLEAN about this, and work out of some sort of pan that will catch
your inevitable leakage. You can use the cheap pump assemblies with the
quart Honda MTF bottles, except that you need to use three hands to
comfortably control everything that needs to be controlled without
having the hose end fall out of the fill hole. I get away with two
hands, with some fiddling. Fill until it runs out of the fill hole, then
put the bolt back. It's about 2.5 quarts or so. Make certain the
spillage is from the tranny being full, and not from the hose being not
fully inserted!

They do tell you that you need a new washer each time. But my parts man
(ordinarily excellent and valuable) kept ordering me the wrong part each
and every time I asked, so I gave up and just kept re-using the original
ones. Both original washers are still on the car. Both have been removed
and replaced each and every year for seventeen years. Neither leaks.

I was gonna take pictures this year on account of several requests via
private email, but when I did the fluid change this year a storm was
brewing, so I just wanted to get it done before the skies broke (no
garage, you see). Maybe next year...

 

My experience on both these points has been different. But
for the record, I am kinda slim and small (woman-size).

The smaller bolt's washer is identical to the oil pan
washer. The larger one is easily obtained from the dealer.
They should be changed for the same reason the oil pan gets
a new washer at every change: To help prevent overtorquing
due to a bad seal which then tends to strip threads.

I know you know this. It's for the archives yada.

 

Brian,

When you figure out how to do this simple "fluid" change, use Honda MTL
fluid. It is the best stuff for our cars.

dan

 

I'm a big hulking man, six foot two and 180 lbs.
No, kinda skinny, actually. My ribs are noticeable in photos.
I look at the pictures and ask my wife, "Am I really that skinny?" She
says yes.

Maybe /you/ can do all this with the car on the ground, but I've found
it just about impossible. Maybe it's easier on the Civic.

I did /not/ know that. Neither does my parts guy, apparently. And he's
been with this dealership since 1986.

Next time I'm at the dealership I will ask him to look at both to see if
we can locate that same part number.

Not mine! The parts guy calls up the diagram, clicks on what /both/ of
us are certain is the washer for that bolt, and voila! Wrong part
arrives. Several times. Neither of us understands this.

Yeah I do know this. And I do replace the oil pan washer with a new one
at every change.

But I must say, it is passing strange that neither tranny bolt has
stripped in seventeen years (that's 17 R&R's), and neither is leaking
after that same length of time.

 

You're just good. Like me. We just know what feels right.

dan

 

Maybe.

I admit most of the time I put the car on ramps for a manual
tranny oil change. I guess it was just once or twice I did
it without lifting it in any way. It was not too awful.

bkhondaparts.com gives part number 94109-14000 for both the
oil pan washer and the drain plug washer (14 mm for both).

Maybe 'cause tranny oil is not changed as often as engine
oil?

 

Both those bolts use crush washers. These washers will lose
their springiness, requiring excessive torque for a good
seal until the threads strip.

Yada yada I am sure you know this.

 

Here are some photos for Acura RSX. Civic should be similar.

http://www.sexyracing.com/tilt/howto/rsx/trannyfluid/trannyfluid.html

Sorry, thought I'd sent that - it's a 2002 Civic EX Coupe.

Brian

 

It's simple and yet complex. Black and yet white. Up and yet down. I should
stop now.

It's the best stuff for sure, but Honda calls it "MTF". The acronym is
analogous to the "ATF" intended for automatic transmissions.

And in case anybody's wondering, Honda has recently given Acura its very
own brand. Bottles sold at Acura dealers are now labeled "Acura MTF"
instead of the previous "Honda MTF". It's the very same potion though.

 

OK... This may help. He can search by part number as well as by
application.

But what about the fill plug washer?

Possibly.

But it may be also because the oil pan has only three or four threads,
while the tranny bolts have about eight or more. Plus the oil pan's threads
are made from expanded sheet steel with nothing but air (or oil) outside
the threads, whereas the tranny's threads are cut from, and are radially
surrounded by, solid aluminum.

 

yes, they're crush washers, but no, they're not springy, they're plastic
[in the materials deformation sense, not polymers sense]. their
plasticity is so that they fill the small intersticies in the material
surface on both the transmission and plug side, and thus seal.

/should/ you reuse them? no - once deformed, they're not soft enough to
reliably do their job. /can/ you reuse them? well, i tend to. more than
a couple of times and they may leak though.

yes, re-use leads to over-tightening temptation, but this should be
avoided at all costs. the transmission casting may /look/ like a huge
hunk of strong aluminum, but it's not that hard to strip the thread, and
oh, what a pita to fix. trust me on that.

 

the smaller washer is, indeed, the same old oil pan drain washer. the
bigger washer is 20mm. i would imagine that the seal on the drain bolt
is quite a bit more critical than that on the filler bolt, (since the
oil only comes up to the level of the filler bolt threads when it's
slopping around)

BTW, original poster: make sure to get the filler bolt off before
taking the drain bolt out. you do NOT want to end up with the drain
bolt open, the transmission drained, and the filler bolt stuck shut.

 

early 90s hondas used to spec plain old engine oil; i went through one
trans in about 50k miles and followed that up with a suspicious number
of bad ones from junkyards (bad growly bearings in each case, not
chewed up synchros or anything). somebody here pointed out that honda
was now speccing their MTF instead, and it wasn't because the trans
were different nowadays and required something different, it was
because the engine oil wasn't doing the job well. i suspect they were
desperately dodging a "secret warranty" type thing. unless there
actually was one i never found out about.

 

It had nothing to do with Honda. Industry-wide, Engine oil
chemistry changed so that catalytic converters would last
longer. But the change meant engine oil was no longer as
good for "extreme pressure" applications like trannies. For
citations, see
http://honda.lioness.googlepages.com/manualtrannyfluid

OTOH, I used regular engine oil in my 91 Civic's manual
tranny until 2006, and my Civic at 206k miles stills runs
great.


early 90s hondas used to spec plain old engine oil; i went
through one
trans in about 50k miles and followed that up with a
suspicious number
of bad ones from junkyards (bad growly bearings in each
case, not
chewed up synchros or anything). somebody here pointed out
that honda
was now speccing their MTF instead, and it wasn't because
the trans
were different nowadays and required something different, it
was
because the engine oil wasn't doing the job well. i suspect
they were
desperately dodging a "secret warranty" type thing. unless
there
actually was one i never found out about.

 

Part no. 94109-20000 (20 mm) for my 91 Civic.

 

They may very well be more plastic (and so possessing a
greater tendency towards permanent deformation) as opposed
to springy, but something springy would also fill
interstices. Bottom line is that seals (gaskets, washers,
etc.) of all kinds are often re-used, and with no subsequent
leaks, despite being not as effective. The operator is
taking a risk.