instrument and marker lights stay on, even with fuse pulled !! short?where?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Elan7e Owner, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. Elan7e Owner

    Elan7e Owner Guest

    Hi guys,

    My 91 civic hatchback always has some new exotic problem after the other,
    that no mechanic is ever able to figure out. I only end up find them out
    myself after my dicussions on this newsgroup. Last time it was a seatbelt
    beeper, then it was a faulty door switch, and now, after I got a new battery
    becuase my old one died due to being drained so many times from electrical
    problems etc, out pops a new problem. Damnit.
    Yesterday I found by chance that my instrument cluster lights and front and
    rear marker lights were on. I had parked it a few hours before and the
    battery was close to dead, with all lights dim. I thought I forgot to switch
    off again, but duh the switch was off. So I thought ok , the switch is
    busted, and found the fuse for that cicuit under the steering wheel and
    pulled it. But that didnt kill the lights! how strange is that! I mean, wow,
    this means that the short is bypassing BOTH the fuse and the switch?? I also
    exchanged the fuse with another neighbouring 10amp one, but that didnt
    change anything. Finally I looked at the fuses in the engine compartment.
    But they seemed to be only for blower/ac etc.
    Could there be relay problem that causes this? Can you please tell me
    exacty where under the dash this particular relay can be found ? But pulling
    the fuse should take care of even and always open stuck relay, right?

    To add another fact which may be related is that about a couple of times
    earlier in the past few months I had noticed that the instrument lights had
    gone out when I was driving. (the car ran fine and headlights etc were
    fine). And then they seemed to work fine afterwards. Some loose connection I
    thought?

    Can Anyone PLEASE help me locate the short. Someone with experience with the
    wiring may be able to point me to a place to look at.. I really cant afford
    a trip to the mechanic over this, they charge $50 an hour and unknown time
    to trace an electrical fault :(
     
    Elan7e Owner, Feb 18, 2004
    #1
  2. Elan7e Owner

    Rex B Guest

    |Hi guys,
    |
    |My 91 civic hatchback always has some new exotic problem after the other,
    |that no mechanic is ever able to figure out. I only end up find them out
    |myself after my dicussions on this newsgroup. Last time it was a seatbelt
    |beeper, then it was a faulty door switch, and now, after I got a new battery
    |becuase my old one died due to being drained so many times from electrical
    |problems etc, out pops a new problem. Damnit.
    |Yesterday I found by chance that my instrument cluster lights and front and
    |rear marker lights were on. I had parked it a few hours before and the
    |battery was close to dead, with all lights dim. I thought I forgot to switch
    |off again, but duh the switch was off. So I thought ok , the switch is
    |busted, and found the fuse for that cicuit under the steering wheel and
    |pulled it. But that didnt kill the lights! how strange is that! I mean, wow,
    |this means that the short is bypassing BOTH the fuse and the switch?? I also
    |exchanged the fuse with another neighbouring 10amp one, but that didnt
    |change anything. Finally I looked at the fuses in the engine compartment.
    |But they seemed to be only for blower/ac etc.
    |Could there be relay problem that causes this? Can you please tell me
    |exacty where under the dash this particular relay can be found ? But pulling
    |the fuse should take care of even and always open stuck relay, right?
    |
    |To add another fact which may be related is that about a couple of times
    |earlier in the past few months I had noticed that the instrument lights had
    |gone out when I was driving. (the car ran fine and headlights etc were
    |fine). And then they seemed to work fine afterwards. Some loose connection I
    |thought?
    |
    |Can Anyone PLEASE help me locate the short. Someone with experience with the
    |wiring may be able to point me to a place to look at.. I really cant afford
    |a trip to the mechanic over this, they charge $50 an hour and unknown time
    |to trace an electrical fault :(

    Rule #1 - When weird electrical problems arise, first check the grounds. All of
    them.

    Rex in Fort Worth
     
    Rex B, Feb 18, 2004
    #2
  3. Elan7e Owner

    Randolph Guest

    Do you have an alarm system in the car? Most alarm systems tie in to the
    instrument / parking lights so that it can flash the lights when you arm
    or disarm the alarm. If you have a faulty alarm system it could leave
    your lights on even if the fuse for the lights is removed (the alarm
    supplies current through its own fused circuit).
     
    Randolph, Feb 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Elan7e Owner

    Elan7e Owner Guest

    Thanks for your replies guys, but no I dont have an alarm and I also dont
    know *where* to check the grounds at.

    But here what else I found. I told you that pulling marker and instrument
    light fuse #8 did not affect anything. But then when I pulled another 15amp
    fuse of the cigg lighter/interior lights etc, the marker and instrument
    lights went out! So that fuse is not removed and now the new funny thing
    that happens is that the radio/interior lights etc turn on and off with the
    headlight switch !!

    Please tell me whats going on!!
    Surely SOMEONE must find this problem interesting enough to think about it!

    It would seem that the short is connecting the marker circuit to the
    interior lights/cigg lighter circuit. But that still doesn't explain why the
    lights should stay ON always! (unless that is an always live circuit)
    (All this is happening with no keys in the ignition by the way.)

    hmm could it be that the short is IN the switch ? The one for the
    headlight/marker/instrument/cigg/interior etc. together.

    I also found that even with that fuse removed and everything off, the
    current drain on the battery was 300ma. 0.3 amps! Thats a lot right? So I am
    going to find that drain source next. My busted stereo possibly.
     
    Elan7e Owner, Feb 19, 2004
    #4
  5. Possibillitites:

    1) The ash tray bulb wire melts into the cigarette lighter.

    2) The cigarrette wire burns into the marker lights because
    someone use a wrong fuse for the cigarrette lighter.

    Solution:

    1) Cut the cigarrette lighter wire after the fuse.
    2) Jump a 12 or 13 gauge wire, what ever is the size for it to the cigarrete lighter.
    3) Problem solved.

    This is a common problem due to neglect. The fuse
    is design for a good purpose, such as fire prevention
    and short circuits that could destroy expensive
    computers. Never neglect the amp ratings.
     
    Indiån §ummer, Feb 20, 2004
    #5
  6. Elan7e Owner

    Elan7eOwner Guest

    Hi Guys,

    So I sat down with the circuit diagram from a haynes for 3 hours and I
    htink I have found the problem, on paper at least. I dont know how to
    physically look for it now.

    Heres how the short HAS to look like to fit all observational evidence:

    +___________________________________
    | |
    | |
    15A Fuse 15A Fuse
    Marker, Instr Lighter, Interior
    lights etc light, radio etc.
    | |
    | |
    | ___________ |
    | / short |
    headlight / Lighter, Radio,
    switch / Interior Lights etc.
    | / |
    |_____| |
    | |
    | |
    Marker lights, |
    instrument |
    lights etc. |
    | |
    | |
    ------------------------------------------------

    So since he short bypasses both the switch and fuse, the marker etc stay on
    because the circuit is completed from the always live (no switch)
    lighter/InteriorLight path. So taking the fuse out or the switch make no
    difference. But since the lighter fuse is now in the picture, taking it out
    switches everything off.

    The headlight switch now turning the interior lights/ radio etc on and off
    is also explained because when the lighter fuse is removed( which I had to,
    to kill the always on lights) , the only path is through the marker fuse.
    And the interior lights/Radio simply becomes a parallel circuit to the other
    , going through the same switch.

    phew.
    But now where should I look physically to find this in the car!
     
    Elan7eOwner, Feb 20, 2004
    #6
  7. Elan7e Owner

    Randolph Guest

    "Indiån §ummer" suggested that the problem might be the lighter and the
    ash tray light. They are both in the same general location, and the ash
    tray light comes on with the interior lights. Some cars even have an
    illuminated ring around the lighter, is that the case with yours?
     
    Randolph, Feb 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Elan7e Owner

    Elan7eOwner Guest

    oops should have replied to that before.
    Mine is a *very* plain car, there is no ash tray light, not even a
    ciggarette lighter.
    No power anything, no auto anything.
     
    Elan7eOwner, Feb 20, 2004
    #8
  9. Elan7e Owner

    Elan7eOwner Guest

    Hi guys,

    I found the short, in a very odd place.
    I DID suspect it could be something to do with my radio, which I had been
    fiddling with for a long time, because my right speaker would cut out
    intermittently (one of the million other weird problems, I keep having with
    my car.This one was a issue known to happen in 91 civics due to cold solder
    joints, I learned)

    So the short is when the loose radio lights illumination (+) wire touches
    the radio battery backup (+) wire. (They are next to each other and to the
    right speaker (+) wire)
    Weird huh. I guess the illumination wire is part of the marker lights
    circuit, while the battey backup wire is from the always-on ciggarette
    lighter circuit.

    Whatever. Honda sux. So much time wasted and so much hassle :(
     
    Elan7eOwner, Feb 23, 2004
    #9
  10. Elan7e Owner

    Randolph Guest

    Thanks for posting the solution to your problem. I wish more people
    would do that.
     
    Randolph, Feb 23, 2004
    #10
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.