i think my joint is damaged on the wheel, but not sure

Hi guys,

I am not sure what the name of part that is damaged. I had a new belt
installed on my A/C compressor, and the guy said that I needed to get
my left wheel fixed.

The rubber is broken off as you can see in the picture, but what I am
trying to do is figure out the name of the part that I need to buy, and
get replaced. I am not sure if this is something I can do, as I bet you
need special tools, and I don't want to mess something up.

What does it look like is appeared to be wrong? and if so would you
know how much it should cost me? the guy said it will cost about $200 +
parts.

I rather buy the parts, because I know it will be cheaper than if I get
them off them, as they always jack up the prices.

Thanks

http://mopa.net/fotos/left-wheel-joint.jpg

 

That's your "outer CV joint"! At this point the safest thing to do is get
the whole driveshaft replaced.

A qualified mechanic would be able to tell you if you can get away with
just replacing the boot. It would depend on the condition of the joint.
Once dirt and water gets in, it will wreck itself fairly quickly.

Mind if I use your pic on my Web site?

And hey people, THIS is why you need to check your boots at every oil
change!

 

By the way, it would be a good idea to spend 50 cents to put a rubber cap
back on the bleeder screw.

 

That's a great picture! As TeGGeR says, the axle needs to be replaced. Shop
around - $200 (US?) plus parts is very high. My local shop charged $65 US
plus parts when I didn't have air tools. Even the dealer quoted slightly
over $300 US parts (new!) and labor with tax. The axle should be under $100
US exchange (don't damage the threads if you DIY). Some places will try to
sell you an alignment with it - replacing the axle does *not* affect the
alignment. Unless the handling is squirrelly or the tires are wearing funny
already, refuse the alignment.

Mike

Mike

 

Thanks TeGGeR, and Michael.

Well, what is the name of all the part that I would need to get this
completely fixed, and the prices of those parts. I will then have to
get someone to install them for me, as this seems to be work, and I
don't frankly want to screw anything up. We are talking about driving
here, not just a easy change a bulb fix. :O(

Tegger, oh your more then free to use my pictures, as I know you do
this kind of stuff all the time to help people out.

I just went outside and took some better pictures for you to use for
your website.
just goto: http://mopa.net/fotos/car

What is the name of the rubber cap that goes on the bleeder screw? or
should I just stop at the store and ask for a rubber cap for my
bleeder screw? I guess that would be best.

Oh, BTW, what screw is the bleeder screw anyways? is that something
that its very important that there is a cap on it?

To get the entire driveshaft replaced would cost a lot of money I would
think huh? unfortunately, I lost my job, and only have about $400 in
savings that I could use to fix the car, and yeah it has to be fixed. I
don't want to worry about it braking down, because there is no way I
can go without a car. Everything here is very far, as I live in
Atlanta. I drive about 2000 miles a month.

The CV joint doesn't seem to be damaged, thank God, but that rubber is
completely cracked off. Is there anyway I could get a new piece of
rubber for it? and if so what would I even ask for? I just don't want
water or dirt to get in their like you said.

Thanks so much!
John

 

Mike,

They have a place here in Georgia, and you pay $125 dollars, and you
get a unlimited amount of alignments for 3 years, and they recommend
getting one every 9 months or so. So your car is always driving
straight, unlike most people's car anyway.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to drop it off and have them realignment the
car again, after all I paid for it for the next three years, it
couldn't hurt.

Oh Tegger? its the rubber on the CV is called a boot? so, but I guess
there is no way I could slide that baby on there.

 

The part that is torn is the CV joint boot, and the part underneath is the
CV (for Constant Velocity) joint. It works like a u-joint (universal joint)
in that it flexes in two dimensions while transmitting torque, but the magic
part is that a u-joint doesn't transmit the movement linearly when it is
flexed - it whips between the 90 degree points. A CV joint moves smoothly
all the way.

The bleeder screw is used to bleed the brakes. The cap keeps dirt out when
the brakes are bled.

The degree of damage to the CV joint can be guaged by making a slow turn
with the steering all the way left or right and your window down. A damaged
joint makes a distinctive rucka-rucka sound, with worse degrees of damage
showing up as pops and sharp clacks.

My recommendation is always to replace the assembly - called an axle shaft
or drive axle - because they are the cheapest way to do a *quality* repair.
I also recommend doing both sides because when one fails, the other is not
far behind. But since money is really tight now, you can do the quick and
dirty (especially dirty!) semi-repair. At auto parts stores you can buy
"split boot" kits to replace the original boot. I haven't bought one but
would expect to pay between $20 and $40 US. It will have a two piece boot
(like the original, but split lengthwise), a big packet of grease and
instructions. Essentially, you cut away the old boot, clean out as much of
the old grease as humanly possible, smoosh as much of the new grease into
the works as possible and put the rest in the boot, then clamp the new boot
clamshell fashion over the CV joint. Did I mention this is all done while
you are under the car? You're gonna love it. But it will stop the
destruction of the CV joint from going much farther and not hit the savings
too badly. If the CV joint hasn't reached the pop/clack stage you can go a
long time with a split boot repair, and with luck and gentle driving a even
a fairly bad joint should hold you until you get some money coming in.

Mike

 

Wow, Mike,

Your the greatest man. Thanks.

Yes, the CV Joint isn't making any weird noices or anything that sounds
like damage. Honestly, I just think what it is that the car is 12 years
old and the rubber just slowly started to rot away and it just cracked
apart. The grease seems fine, and I don't have any problems with
turning the steering wheel while driving fast or slow.

It's just the guy at the shop said it needed to be fixed, and I know
how these small shops are, they just want more money. I honestly don't
feel like fixing anything unless its a must.

I bought this 1993 Honda Civic Lx last year (June 2004) for $1,900 from
a women in Charleston, South Carolina, and she gave me all the paper
work. So far this is all what has been done to the car.

March 1998 (new battery)
April 1999 (New Wheel Bearings)
October 1999 (CK Muffler & Gasket)
October 1999 (Pipe & Spout) Whatever that is

In June 2004 - (Rack & Pinon Replaced, P/S Flush, Dist Rotor, Cap, Plug
Wires, Replaced bearings in both rear wheels, repaired two heat shield,
replaced both rear hub brdgs, replaced A/C Tenisor, Replaced all belts,
replaced both C/V Shafts Align, Replaced Fear/Front Shoes and turn
rotors) Total spent in repairs from 10/2002 to 06/2004 was $4,689.81

After I bought the car at the end of June, it must because she spent so
much money and didn't want to spend anymore. Her paperwork stated it
needed a timing belt changed, and that is when she sold it.

July 2004 the Timing belt was placed, all of the Gaskets on the entire
engine were replaced, new tires, belts, and ever since I only been
using Castrol Synthetic Oil for my car, because I have always heard its
the best, and even though its expensive, its well worth it.

Three months ago I replaced the radiator, and now two weeks ago I
installed a A/C compressor. I am hoping that since it said the C/V
Shafts were replaced, that my C/V's should last a while. Now, what is
the different between SHAFTS? and Joints?

(shafts must be a stick or something, hehe)

Thanks

 

Oh yeah,and mike, getting dirty is no thing to me. I am always under my
car doing something. I just replaced the headlights, and the A/C so I
been under there quite a bit. Now this week I gotta change my oil.

3 weeks ago I changed the fuel filter. Anyways, how often should that
be changed?

 

Actually, you can drive it until the vibration starts to loosen your
fillings.

 

Keep your fuel tank full all the time and you can leave the fuel filter
practically forever.

 

Actually, the only one I've heard of separating was in a Ford Escort my
second son had when he was in Montana. The joint itself is about the size of
an apple and it's hard to imagine one of them separating, but now that I
know they can I don't want to give someone too much confidence. I believe as
long as it hasn't reached the pop/clack stage it can go on a very long time
with new grease and a new boot, but I'd hate for anybody to bet their safety
on my say-so about it.

I sure do wonder where it broke, though. Maybe where the cage is attached to
the shaft?

Mike

 

The CV shafts would be the same as the axle shafts - the CV joints are
fastened to the shafts to make the assembly that is usually replaced. I'm
not sure about regional differences in terminology (like if you are in the
UK you'd carry things home in the boot instead of the trunk) but I've always
called them axle shafts.

The first CV joint I ever did was on our '84 Dodge, and I elected to buy
regular boots and repack the joints - kind of the worst of both worlds as
far as work goes. I pulled the shaft out and disassembled the two CV joints
(inner and outer) to clean them out thoroughly. I learned a lot but I don't
recommend anybody getting that involved.

That outer CV joint is a mechanical marvel. You will see it is a center ball
with grooves running lengthwise for the large balls that couple the two
pieces, and the other end of the joint has a cage that the balls fit into.
My description doesn't do it justice. I don't know how the balls end up
lining up perfectly on the plane that bisects the angle the joint makes.
Somehow I got the two pieces apart and somehow I got them back together, and
the mysterious magical ball alignment took care of itself.

Mike

 

i dont know if anyone noticed this, but this dollar amount seems
excessive; 4689.81 for 2 years worth of maintenance? you say here
that the CV shafts were replaced in 2004, why would the CV joints go
bad in 2005? could the shafts possibly be replaced without putting in
new boots? I dont see how a reputable mechanic would do that.

by the way, i dont think you mentioned the milage on this civic, can
you tell us that?

Fish

 

Just looking at the pic, #1 thing I notice is that this is NOT an OEM boot.
(they are traditionally a little tougher and don't crack as easily). #2 is
that there does not appear to be any other tell tale cracks in the boot,
meaning that this malfunction of the boot was caused by an outside force
puncturing the boot itself. That really sucks!

Depending on how long you have gone without the boot, you could possibly get
away with doing just the outer boot. However, in order to do the outer boot,
the inner boot has to be removed anyways, as the outer boot slides onto the
shaft from the inside, once the inner boot and inner joint are removed.

If you have gone for longer than 1 week like this, I would suggest a complete
replacement of the driveshaft. OEM boot kits will probably run you about $30
for outer and $30 for inner (you might as well replace the inner if you have
to remove it, they get very brittle and it will probably need to be replaced
after removal)

If you decide to go the boot replacement method, one tip I have is that in
order to get ALL of the grease out of the joint, take the driveshaft to the
carwash or use a pressure washer to clean the outer joint really thoroughly.
Then let it dry well, use compressed air to get all the water out. The
grease they send with the boot kit does not like other types of grease, and
can cause problems if you don't clean it out properly. I tried to do it in a
bath tub and a parts cleaner tub, but they didn't work. Actually, the
instructions that came with my non-OEM boots for my 87 prelude gave me this
little tip....

t

 

Fish,

I know, yeah, well it seems that maybe the salt water could in fact
eaten the rubber from the boot maybe? she lived just miles away from
the ocean. That is kinda what my point is now, the CV cannot be bad, I
sure would hope not if they were replaced last year. The women who I
bought the car had only had the car for about 3 years, spent almost 5k
in repairing almost everything, and then got pregnant with her third
child, and sold the car because her and the family needed a bigger car,
as she claimed. This women was a CPA, and her husband is a realtor.
They just bought a new Dodge Durango, and wasn't driving the civic.
It's a 1993 LX model.

For having the car say 3 years, they only drived it about 10k miles. I
bought it with around 158,000K, and now it has 182,000K (damn, i put
24k miles in 13 months)

Anyways, Fish, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't replace the boot,
because where this women took her car in always did a pretty crappy,
and lazy job on it.

The women spent like $1,500 on a paint job, and when I picked up the
car from her it had almost no paint on it. For $1000 you can get a
decent paint job at MAACO.

----

disallow,

I honestly, do not know how long I have been driving the car without
the boot. I just had my car realigned about 1 month ago, and who knows,
no one ever said anything at the shop, until I had my belt replaced for
my A/C and the guy told me about it.

The car does not make any noises, so that is all good. I don't know
everything about cars, but I would assume, it handles good, it drives
just fine, and nothing seems to be wrong other than the boot is split.

If you look at this picture:
http://mopa.net/fotos/car/DSC09972.jpg

Your notice their is a lot of grease on the CV Joint, so this must of
happend within a very short amount of time.

Now, you say I need the inner and outside boot. How would I even
install a inner boot? I don't even see where its located, sounds like I
would have to remove the CV joint and I wouldn't trust myself enough to
do that.

Is there anyway the boot can be slide over or something without having
to remove stuff, and may in fact make it worse than it already is?

Thanks

 

I realize that the joint is not making noise now, HOWEVER that doesn't mean
that wear did not already occur which will require a complete driveshaft
replacement! Here are the scenarios:

1. Cost = approx $50. Replace the boots on the driveshaft. This will
require complete removal of the driveshaft, as well as disassembly of the
inner CV joint (its a piece of cake if you have the manual, a ball joint
separator, and a 32mm socket with breaker bar) You CANNOT put the outer boot
on without removing the inner joint. There are kits out there that come in 2
pieces, and you can glue the 2 halves of the boot together, but these are ill
advised as they tend to wear out within a year or so.

Also, if your outer joint did wear and just wasn't making noise yet, then
suddenly develops this problem, you'll be back to square 1, you have to
replace the driveshaft, and you just wasted your valuable time and money on
CV boots.

2. Cost = approx $75 - replace the whole driveshaft. The same effort to
remove the driveshaft as in scenario 1, however, no monkeying around with
boots and grease and inner joints and trying to get all the damn grease out.
Much easier, cleaner, and DEFINITELY THE WAY TO GO!!! for not alot of extra
dough. and if you aren't confident enough to tackle the job yourself, it will
cost you about an hour of labour at your local shop.
t

 

PS, I noticed in your pic that the area is COATED in grease from the CV joint.
This means that there is probably about NONE left where it is needed. I
stand by my recommendation to replace the whole driveshaft!

t

 

The CV Shaft is the same as the whole Driveshaft right?

The women replaced the CV Shafts both in June of 2004, so hopefully the
driveshaft is something completely different, because it cost the women
$800 to replace the CV shafts, and I sure don't have that.

So I need this thing?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7984581227

This is the left side, which isn't priced bad at all.

The only problem is I looked online at

and they want: Drivershaft Right $270.46 & Left $273 on this website

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com

There is no way I can afford spending like $600 almost, plus labor.

 

Call your local auto parts discount house. A rebuilt shaft is usually about
$100.