Honda S2000 oil starvation/ main engine bearing problem

Discussion in 'S2000' started by Gary Peiffer, Sep 30, 2005.

  1. Gary Peiffer

    Gary Peiffer Guest

    Hi folks,
    I was considering buying a 2000 or 2001 Honda S-2000, but then a mechanic told me about the 'dirty little secret' some of the earlier models of the S-2000 had. Honda eventually fixed it in later models, but it was an "oil starvation" problem in earlier models and it could cause problems with the main bearing of the engine... which could get very expensive. I am interested in hearing accounts or stories from people who have had this problem with an S-2000. Did it occur rarely? Moderately often? How expensive were the repairs? How good was Honda about the problem? I was told by the mechanic that there's no way to diagnose this problem in a car that has it. Would you recommend (or advise against) a 2000 or 2001 S-2000? What model year was it when Honda had this problem fixed for good? Did the problem occur in the 2002 model also? Thanx for any info.

    G. Peiffer
    Alameda, CA
     
    Gary Peiffer, Sep 30, 2005
    #1
  2. Gary Peiffer

    SoCalMike Guest

    no ones posted here about it that i can recall. your best bet would be
    s2000 forums, and/or google.
     
    SoCalMike, Sep 30, 2005
    #2
  3. Gary Peiffer

    jim beam Guest

    never heard of it. doubt it very much. and there's five main bearings,
    not just one.
     
    jim beam, Sep 30, 2005
    #3
  4. Gary Peiffer

    TeGGeR® Guest



    It seems different oil jet bolts were installed as of May '02 to address
    potential oil starvation issues under very heavy loads. There's a TSB on
    this. Hardly a "dirty little secret".

    A bit of Googling turned up this, with much stellar info:
    http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138344

    And from The Temple of VTEC:
    http://tinyurl.com/7mwrm

    Photo sequence of the repair:
    http://www.pbase.com/rsrock/oil_jet_bolt_replacement

    Another discussion thread:
    http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=123&t=162487
     
    TeGGeR®, Sep 30, 2005
    #4
  5. Gary Peiffer

    Gary Peiffer Guest

    Excellent answer. Thanks for all the information.
     
    Gary Peiffer, Oct 1, 2005
    #5
  6. Gary Peiffer

    azz84932 Guest

    Have you tried here?
    http://www.s2ki.com/forums/
     
    azz84932, Oct 1, 2005
    #6
  7. Gary Peiffer

    jim beam Guest

    i don't see a problem - i just see bleating about what /could/ happen.
    i'm with honda on this one - you're never going to be able to run the
    vehicle hard enough long enough for this to be an issue. especially not
    if you use a decent oil.
     
    jim beam, Oct 2, 2005
    #7
  8. Gary Peiffer

    TeGGeR® Guest


    It says in the one thread that the oil starvation issues are happening to
    cars subject to very unusual loads, such as being driven for 120mph for a
    half-hour. And even then it's not *all* cars driven that way that
    experience the problem, but only a few. There are almost no reports of such
    failures in North America.

    It's a pretty minor issue overall. That still does not stop some from
    declaring darkly that Honda has a "dirty little secret". What a joke. I
    guess the conspiracy theorists have to have *something* to believe in,
    don't they?
     
    TeGGeR®, Oct 2, 2005
    #8
  9. Gary Peiffer

    jim beam Guest

    so true.
     
    jim beam, Oct 2, 2005
    #9
  10. Gary Peiffer

    FanJet Guest

    Oil starvation is much more likely related to engine speed and lateral
    loads, not road speed.
    I think it's reasonable to expect no oil starvation issues with a US$ 30K+ 4
    cylinder engine equipped car that's advertised as designed to be driven very
    hard.
     
    FanJet, Oct 2, 2005
    #10
  11. Gary Peiffer

    TeGGeR® Guest


    You've not read the links given in earlier messages, that's clear.

    The oil starvation has to do with the oil spray pattern applied to the
    cylinder under the piston. Starting May/02 Honda replaced the older 2-hole
    oil-jet bolts with ones that have 4 smaller holes to address this issue.
    Apparently the four smaller holes give a better spray pattern for high
    engine speeds.


    Nobody's perfect of course. Automakers discover this sort of glitch
    regularly, which is the very reason TSBs and warranties exist.

    Speaking for TSBs, a kind contributor just emailed me a bunch more TSBs for
    addition to the TSB page.
     
    TeGGeR®, Oct 2, 2005
    #11
  12. Gary Peiffer

    jim beam Guest

    and i guarantee, 4 small holes will clog /way/ more easily than 2 larger
    ones. i return to my previous comment - using decent oil is critical.

    at a slight tangent to that, if just one piston at the end of the block
    is experiencing this problem, it's likely a coolant circulation issue
    more than an oil issue. but addressing that would require a whole motor
    redesign. some mods like gasket hole changes can help, but coolant
    circulation is just about the least refined aspect of most cars simply
    because most vehicles don't get worked hard enough for it to be a
    problem. i recall one instance where a block assembly that had been
    used by a certain manufacturer had successfully worked on gasoline
    engines for over 30 years, but when that motor was used as a base for a
    diesel derivative, it would consistently burn out one piston at the far
    end of the bank. essentially, a coolant circulation issue that had
    always been present but "not serious" was now exposed under the much
    harsher higher temperature regime of diesel operation.

    it's an interesting problem. circulating coolant from one end to the
    other is cheap, convenient & works, but by definition, coolant at one
    end is going to be warmer than the other. it can be addressed with
    "cross flow" cooling, but that means separate liners, a longer heavier
    block, and mechanical stability issues that mean yet more weight. is it
    worth the trouble for a motor that in all other respects and
    applications is quite exemplary except when experiencing *uninterrupted*
    maximum output for more than 30 minutes? there aren't many places where
    you're going to start to get close to that ceiling, even on a track.
     
    jim beam, Oct 2, 2005
    #12
  13. Gary Peiffer

    TeGGeR® Guest


    It happens in Europe, which is why the TSB has not been issued for North
    American cars. Europeans tend to drive at much higher speeds than we do.

    North American cars are more likely to sludge up, on account of our driving
    and maintenance patterns.
     
    TeGGeR®, Oct 2, 2005
    #13
  14. Gary Peiffer

    jim beam Guest

    only on german autobahns. everywhere else is speed limited & strictly
    enforced from what i saw.
    inferior oil formulations a much more likely cause.
     
    jim beam, Oct 3, 2005
    #14
  15. Gary Peiffer

    TeGGeR® Guest


    According to my sister, who has driven in Holland and Belgium, speed limits
    there are sort of theoretical.

    Britain is a different story, on account of their photo radar.


    Inferior maintenance practices as well. When Toyota's 1MZ-FE engine sludge
    problems began to surface a few years ago, Toyota discovered the problem
    existed primarily in the US, with very few cases in Canada. Their research
    indicated that more Americans than Canadians lease instead of own, and
    lessees are *much* less likely to pay attention to maintenance than owners.

    And speaking of maintenance, I wished so bad today that I had a garage.
    There's a '94 Caravan for sale down the road from me. It's in wonderful
    shape, straight, rust-free body, and is going for $450. The only problem? A
    blown head gasket. But I've got no place to keep it. If only...
     
    TeGGeR®, Oct 3, 2005
    #15
  16. Gary Peiffer

    jim beam Guest

    you should buy the caravan and do the gasket just for the sake of it.
    you'll be /so/ glad for the reality check on how well honda make cars
    compared to that, er, "thing".
     
    jim beam, Oct 3, 2005
    #16
  17. Gary Peiffer

    dold Guest

    That would have to be since my last visit there.
    The M4 has some nominal limit, but the cruising speed from Bracknell to
    Windsor seemed very stable at 100mph, in traffic.
    I was a passenger in a Renault of some diminutive size, and that seemed
    like about 25 too many mph for me, and the engine.
     
    dold, Oct 3, 2005
    #17
  18. Gary Peiffer

    Gary Peiffer Guest

    The phrase "dirty little secret" did not originate with me. If you go into Google search engine, and search on the keywords S2000 oil starvation, look at the second hit out of 552 hits. It jumps right out of your computer monitor screen and right into your face. The link is at http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=664&page=2
    and the comments were:

    Originally Posted by Chip
    JB; I too wanted an S2000 since it was a new model in 00. My first issue was the plastic rear window which was changed to glass in MY 02. The second reason was the "market value scalding" dealers were adding to the bottom line. I almost bought an 02, but the second gear issue was still a problem to many owners and there was a dirty little secret about a short block oil starvation problem that several owners experienced and had to have the short block replaced and in the hands of "ham fisted" techs. for long periods of time. While the cars waited on parts many owners cars suffered mild body damage that dealers claimed they were not responsible for. I must say in all fairness that the above issues may have only happened to a few owners, but you need to know about them. Additionally there were power window (power down) issues, rear diff. issues and a few other small issues that all conspired to make me look elsewhere for a ride. I must also say that many of the above issues may have been caused by hard spirited driving as well, but that's why folks buy cars like this is it not? My advice to you is to wait until we see what Mr. Lutz & Co. offers up and then decide which car is best suited for you. Good luck!
     
    Gary Peiffer, Oct 4, 2005
    #18
  19. Gary Peiffer

    TeGGeR® Guest


    Never said it did. I never said WHO said it.
     
    TeGGeR®, Oct 4, 2005
    #19
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