Honda Jazz UK CVT holding on hills

Discussion in 'Jazz' started by john, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. john

    john Guest


    We just bought a Honda Jazz 1.4 CVT in the UK and love it, except for
    one thing. We live on a hill, and it doesn't hold its position when
    you're in gear, stationary, and take your foot off the brake. This
    makes manoeuvring in and out of tight parking spots a rather exciting
    attempt to release the handbrake when the car is revved enough to hold
    its position. That doesn't sound at all right to me.

    The sales guy said this was easy to fix, it was a software parameter.
    This seems reasonable, as the 7-speed manual mode must also be simply
    software settings since continuous variable transmission has no gears
    (I think).

    However, the garage guys (same dealership) are looking blank and have
    adjusted the handbrake. Tbh, he seemed a bit daft when we spoke to him
    the first time.


    1) Do we think that a Honda Jazz CVT that's stationary, on a hill,
    should hold its position if we release the brake?

    2) If we do, is the cure a software adjustment or a physical thing?

    3) If we don't, am I missing some technique .. should I be using the
    foot brake or something?

    john, Jun 6, 2005
  2. john

    motsco_ _ Guest


    Not sure about the Jazz, but the owner's manual for non-CVT Hondas say
    that it's normal for your Honda to NOT hold it's position, when stopped

    I'd believe the manual WAY before I'd believe a salesman :)

    motsco_ _, Jun 6, 2005
  3. john

    Bucky Guest

    What was your previous car? And how does it compare on the hill? In
    general, all the cars I've driven slide back on a steep hill when you
    transition from brake to gas pedal. Except for a Subura that had a
    hill-holder feature. I'm not exactly sure how it worked, but I'm
    guessing that when it detected that you were on an inclince, it would
    hold the brake for an extra half second after you let go of the brake.
    It definitely was not the transmission because my car was a manual.
    Actually, the first time I had to parallel park on a steep hill, I
    thought it was going to be very difficult and take very long. To my
    surprise, it was faster to park on a steep hill because I didn't have
    to shift into reverse to go backwards. The car would slide backwards
    when I let go of the gas pedal. So I only had to modulate the gas pedal
    to go forwards and backwards. It was very efficient. =)
    Bucky, Jun 6, 2005
  4. I remember when Subaru was pitching this feature. I can't recall
    exactly how the brake was set, but it was held by vacuum until the
    engine was reved up causing the vacuum to drop and the brake to be
    released. My thought at the time: rinky dink feature intended to
    relieve you of the need to learn how to operate your car.

    Same with the CVT question. Of course it will roll back if the hill
    is steep enough. You have two feet, it has two pedals. How hard can
    it be? Why burn up the transmission trying to get it to "hold" on the
    hill. Hold the brake on and rev it up a little. When it feels like
    the engine is starting to labor, ease off the brake. With a little
    practice you should be able to do it in your sleep.
    Gordon McGrew, Jun 7, 2005
  5. john

    TeGGeR® Guest

    (Gordon McGrew) wrote in

    Subaru just resurrected Studebaker's old "Hill-Holder" idea. It wasn't too
    successful the second time around, either.

    Two pedals, two feet. Sounds like a logical solution. You can also apply
    the handbrake (while holding in the button) instead of using the foot
    brake. Like driving a pre-war car with decoupled brakes.
    TeGGeR®, Jun 7, 2005
  6. john

    Bucky Guest

    What do you mean by "wasn't too successful"? In terms of marketing it,
    or functionality?

    Personally, I liked it. I can handle the clutch/gas/handbrake
    coordination, but the hill-holder just made things more convenient. I
    wouldn't pay extra for the feature, but it was cool to have.
    Bucky, Jun 7, 2005
  7. john

    john Guest

    Previously a Neon, prior to that an old Jag

    The dealer has confirmed the same behaviour in another Jazz CVT and
    reckons it's something we'll get used to. He also spoke to a regular
    customer who always drives CVTs and he said he also gets the rollback
    "problem" when pulling out of his street.

    I hear the points about two feet, two pedals, but it's counterintuitive
    ... automatic drivers don't expect to have to use their left foot, but
    we'll give it a try.

    I think the problem is mostly when we are close parked on a hill.
    Because you can't sense a bite point like you do in a manual, there's a
    good chance of either rolling back into the car behind, or accelerating
    forward into the car in front.

    The moral of the story is, I think, that a CVT is not an automatic, it
    does behave differently.

    Otherwise, the car's great. Thanks for all your inputs.

    john, Jun 8, 2005
  8. That actually sounds like a tougher problem. Making precise, low
    speed maneuvers on a hill can be tricky with an automatic. I have an
    Odyssey with AT and a short, steep uphill driveway with a closed
    garage door at the top. Pulling up close is kind of hard because the
    AT will hold, but not creep. To get it to move forward you have to
    make a push on the accelerator and if you are only a couple inches
    from the door.
    I really prefer manual transmissions. More control and more fun under
    all conditions. (Yeah, I even like 'em better in traffic jams.)
    Enjoy it. The CVT is a neat concept and they seem to be reliable
    based on the lack of complaints here.
    Gordon McGrew, Jun 9, 2005
  9. john

    jim beam Guest

    does it have a torque converter or a mechanical clutch? if the latter,
    having it slip to hold the vehicle on the hill is a /bad/ [expensive] idea.
    yes, left foot holding brake is what we get taught here in the u.s.
    that's why there's a big wide brake pedal on automatics - otherwise a
    normal pedal size would suffice.
    jim beam, Jun 9, 2005
  10. john

    john Guest

    Thanks, good info

    john, Jun 14, 2005
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