Honda Helm Manual on CD

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Caroline, May 22, 2004.

  1. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    Anyone have this? Is it a pain in the neck to look up pages on CD and print out
    the ones you need?

    Ebay has some good deals for this and I am considering one.
     
    Caroline, May 22, 2004
    #1
  2. As computer savvy as I am I still prefer catalogs for large volumes of
    material. I prefer to "flip" through a book to find information rather
    than relying on a computer.

    But the CD has it's advantages like printing out pages and not having to
    worry about getting them dirty.

    I prefer the Helm Books.

    CaptainKrunch
     
    CaptainKrunch, May 22, 2004
    #2
  3. As computer savvy as I am I still prefer catalogs for large volumes of
    material. I prefer to "flip" through a book to find information rather
    than relying on a computer.

    But the CD has it's advantages like printing out pages and not having to
    worry about getting them dirty.

    I prefer the Helm Books.

    CaptainKrunch
     
    CaptainKrunch, May 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Caroline

    User Guest

    I did a search on Ebay's site for these CDs. I find it curious that there
    are no pictures of any of these CDs for the few items that I looked at.
    It's also curious that Helm is charging $20 for a training CD that just
    covers one topic, e.g., http://tinyurl.com/2tawq while they're charging $85
    for a full Electrical Troubleshooting Manual on CD, e.g.,
    http://tinyurl.com/3xtel, which incidentally is only available in spanish.

    I think it's likely that the CDs available on Ebay are home made and that
    they were probably created using a website grabber such as HTTrack
    (http://tucows.tierranet.com/preview/193804.html) from a source such as
    http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/workshopmanuals2.html. Not that this is a bad
    think, but the CDs may not be legal with respect to copyright issues. Honda
    is fairly protective of their name. For example, in the early '90s all
    independent shops in my area were challenged with lawsuits from Honda in
    order drop the word Honda from the shop's name. The CDs may or may not be
    complete either, i.e., for a product selling for only $2 I can't imagine
    someone putting much effort into it.
     
    User, May 22, 2004
    #4
  5. Caroline

    User Guest

    I did a search on Ebay's site for these CDs. I find it curious that there
    are no pictures of any of these CDs for the few items that I looked at.
    It's also curious that Helm is charging $20 for a training CD that just
    covers one topic, e.g., http://tinyurl.com/2tawq while they're charging $85
    for a full Electrical Troubleshooting Manual on CD, e.g.,
    http://tinyurl.com/3xtel, which incidentally is only available in spanish.

    I think it's likely that the CDs available on Ebay are home made and that
    they were probably created using a website grabber such as HTTrack
    (http://tucows.tierranet.com/preview/193804.html) from a source such as
    http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/workshopmanuals2.html. Not that this is a bad
    think, but the CDs may not be legal with respect to copyright issues. Honda
    is fairly protective of their name. For example, in the early '90s all
    independent shops in my area were challenged with lawsuits from Honda in
    order drop the word Honda from the shop's name. The CDs may or may not be
    complete either, i.e., for a product selling for only $2 I can't imagine
    someone putting much effort into it.
     
    User, May 22, 2004
    #5
  6. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    But the above site has manuals that seem more like online Chilton's: Good for a
    lot of repairs and maintenance (I use one often) but from my understanding not
    nearly as detailed as the Helm manuals.
    I agree these offerings on E-bay appear fishy.
    Yes, I agree.

    Then too the one at which I'm looking has a $6 shipping charge. That's
    extravagant and so also seems fishy.

    I see none of the several Helm Honda civic CDs have bids on them right now. I
    have emailed the seller (seems to be just one guy) to see if he'll talk about
    his "methods." His feedback is very good, anyway: some 138 people gave him
    praise, only one person was negative, and one more was neutral. Many of these
    folks bought CDs from him, and from the list of what he's selling, it sounds
    like they're likely Helm manual CDs.

    Thanks for checking and sharing your impression.
     
    Caroline, May 23, 2004
    #6
  7. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    But the above site has manuals that seem more like online Chilton's: Good for a
    lot of repairs and maintenance (I use one often) but from my understanding not
    nearly as detailed as the Helm manuals.
    I agree these offerings on E-bay appear fishy.
    Yes, I agree.

    Then too the one at which I'm looking has a $6 shipping charge. That's
    extravagant and so also seems fishy.

    I see none of the several Helm Honda civic CDs have bids on them right now. I
    have emailed the seller (seems to be just one guy) to see if he'll talk about
    his "methods." His feedback is very good, anyway: some 138 people gave him
    praise, only one person was negative, and one more was neutral. Many of these
    folks bought CDs from him, and from the list of what he's selling, it sounds
    like they're likely Helm manual CDs.

    Thanks for checking and sharing your impression.
     
    Caroline, May 23, 2004
    #7
  8. Caroline

    User Guest

    The manuals at the above site are identical to the Helm manuals.
     
    User, May 23, 2004
    #8
  9. Caroline

    User Guest

    The manuals at the above site are identical to the Helm manuals.
     
    User, May 23, 2004
    #9
  10. Caroline

    Mista Bone Guest

    Likely they grabbed they mnauals from here........

    http://icelord.net/honda/repair/

    Nothing like free right??????
    Another Ebay scam????
     
    Mista Bone, May 23, 2004
    #10
  11. Caroline

    Mista Bone Guest

    Likely they grabbed they mnauals from here........

    http://icelord.net/honda/repair/

    Nothing like free right??????
    Another Ebay scam????
     
    Mista Bone, May 23, 2004
    #11
  12. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    May I ask: How do you know?

    I ask because people online celebrate the Helm manuals as the best--very
    detailed and very precise in their directions. Yet I do not find the UK site's
    manuals any more impressive than Chilton's.

    For example, the directions for the timing belt change on a 1991 Honda Concerto
    omit

    1. Any mention of removal of the cruise control actuator (it's right above the
    side engine mount)
    2. Any mention of supporting the oil pan (and thus engine) prior to removing the
    side engine mount
    3. Any mention of restraining the crankshaft pulley when removing the crankshaft
    pulley bolt (which it calls the "special bolt").

    Aside: Thanks Krunch and Mista for your input.
     
    Caroline, May 23, 2004
    #12
  13. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    May I ask: How do you know?

    I ask because people online celebrate the Helm manuals as the best--very
    detailed and very precise in their directions. Yet I do not find the UK site's
    manuals any more impressive than Chilton's.

    For example, the directions for the timing belt change on a 1991 Honda Concerto
    omit

    1. Any mention of removal of the cruise control actuator (it's right above the
    side engine mount)
    2. Any mention of supporting the oil pan (and thus engine) prior to removing the
    side engine mount
    3. Any mention of restraining the crankshaft pulley when removing the crankshaft
    pulley bolt (which it calls the "special bolt").

    Aside: Thanks Krunch and Mista for your input.
     
    Caroline, May 23, 2004
    #13
  14. Caroline

    jim beam Guest

    hey caroline

    don't want to sound pedantic, but you have to make /some/ assumptions
    here - like whether the person doing the job has any experience.
    presumably, if they're doing a job like this, they do. knowing from
    experience that the engine needs support when removing a motor mount is
    in the same league as knowing which end of a wrench to hold. spelling
    out every rudimentary triviality is not very productive for someone that
    has basic shop skills.

    likewise, the crankshaft pulley bolt does not require restraint if
    you're using pneumatic tools - as almost /all/ shops will. restraint
    will only be necessary when re-torquing, and even then, it's not
    strictly necessary if using the correct torque bar on a pneumatic driver.

    to get back to the point, the reason people recommend helm is because
    they sell the official manufacturer shop manuals. you pretty much
    /have/ to trust their information is correct.
     
    jim beam, May 23, 2004
    #14
  15. Caroline

    jim beam Guest

    hey caroline

    don't want to sound pedantic, but you have to make /some/ assumptions
    here - like whether the person doing the job has any experience.
    presumably, if they're doing a job like this, they do. knowing from
    experience that the engine needs support when removing a motor mount is
    in the same league as knowing which end of a wrench to hold. spelling
    out every rudimentary triviality is not very productive for someone that
    has basic shop skills.

    likewise, the crankshaft pulley bolt does not require restraint if
    you're using pneumatic tools - as almost /all/ shops will. restraint
    will only be necessary when re-torquing, and even then, it's not
    strictly necessary if using the correct torque bar on a pneumatic driver.

    to get back to the point, the reason people recommend helm is because
    they sell the official manufacturer shop manuals. you pretty much
    /have/ to trust their information is correct.
     
    jim beam, May 23, 2004
    #15
  16. Caroline

    Kelsen Guest

    I don't think that a company making such an assumption would necessarily
    be wrong -- that said, Helm doesn't, as far as I can tell. I have the
    Helm manual for my 2001 Odyssey and my 2003 Accord, and if you have to
    take a single screw out to accomplish a task, it tells you. In most
    cases, it is a reference to another page that delineates the procedure
    for removing whatever has to be removed in order to get to removing the
    subject at hand. In my experience (so far) with these manuals, it's
    *all* in there, just as Caroline expects. That said, I also wonder if
    what she's seeing is in fact identical to the Helm manual, although the
    bit I looked at, the 'table of contents', so to speak, *did* look to be
    the same.
     
    Kelsen, May 23, 2004
    #16
  17. Caroline

    Kelsen Guest

    I don't think that a company making such an assumption would necessarily
    be wrong -- that said, Helm doesn't, as far as I can tell. I have the
    Helm manual for my 2001 Odyssey and my 2003 Accord, and if you have to
    take a single screw out to accomplish a task, it tells you. In most
    cases, it is a reference to another page that delineates the procedure
    for removing whatever has to be removed in order to get to removing the
    subject at hand. In my experience (so far) with these manuals, it's
    *all* in there, just as Caroline expects. That said, I also wonder if
    what she's seeing is in fact identical to the Helm manual, although the
    bit I looked at, the 'table of contents', so to speak, *did* look to be
    the same.
     
    Kelsen, May 23, 2004
    #17
  18. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    Jim, I'm totally with you. With the Haynes manuals, the Chilton's manuals, and
    the UK site's manuals, I am indeed accustomed to "reading between the lines"
    somewhat to accomplish any maintenance repair job listed there. (If anything
    seems way out of kilter, I cross-check manuals and/or ask here.)
    True, from what I hear. Good point.
    Makes sense.

    Thanks.
     
    Caroline, May 23, 2004
    #18
  19. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    Jim, I'm totally with you. With the Haynes manuals, the Chilton's manuals, and
    the UK site's manuals, I am indeed accustomed to "reading between the lines"
    somewhat to accomplish any maintenance repair job listed there. (If anything
    seems way out of kilter, I cross-check manuals and/or ask here.)
    True, from what I hear. Good point.
    Makes sense.

    Thanks.
     
    Caroline, May 23, 2004
    #19
  20. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    Yes, that's the impression I was getting from Helm manual owners here.
    I see that the UK site's manuals likewise often refer to another page that
    delineates a particular sub-procedure.

    IIRC many of the UK site's manual pages say "Honda Motor Co." at the bottom.
    Also, it sounds like people know or agree that Helm uses the actual
    manufacturer's workshop pages, too.

    At this point because of the UK site (which I use a lot), I think I'll skip
    buying a Helm manual or CD but maybe will buy a hard copy of a Chilton's at
    Ebay. (I have been borrowing Chiltons from the library for years as needed,
    supplementing with online assistance.)
     
    Caroline, May 23, 2004
    #20
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