First new car in years - what will they try to sell me?

I'm intending to use Costco to buy a Civic Hybrid. The salesman says
that the price is going to be the Invoice price ($20,789) plus
Destination and tax and license. My recollection from buying a car
years ago is that there were a bunch of last minute decisions about
extended warrantees and options like floor mats when signing the
contract.

Anybody have any opinions about whether I should go for the Honda
extended warrantee on hybrid?

Also years ago I remember being offered some extra protection process
on the paint, and extra protection on the bottom of the car (I live in
Northern California so I don't need protection from salt).

I think I'll buy stuff like after market floor mats at a car parts
store.

I should know this stuff but I don't, so I'm asking.

\Samson

 

You're wasting you money if you buy new. Consider $6000 of that going
up in smoke the instant you sign the paperwork.

I wouldn't unless they offer a ten year plan.
I've yet to see any extended warranty on any product that was worth the
cost and trouble.
If you can get it for less than $2.5K and it covers >7 years then it might
be worth considering. Keep in mind that it will invariably not cover the
parts that fail on your car. Make damn sure that coverage for the
hybrid battery pack isn't pro-rated.

Pure snake oil. Don't get any extras. Any.

Why even get a hybrid? It will never pay for itself compared to a three year
old civic non-hybrid. $22K is a lot to pay for a crappy little civic.
Also: don't get a loan > 60 months. Keep in mind that the interest compounds
for every single year. (13% becomes 30%, etc. after 4 years)

 

When I buy a new Honda, I avoid buying anything but the car. I might
add the trunk liner and gold kit because I have to buy from Honda
anyway. All those things you mentioned above are cash cows for the
dealer. You don't need any of them. Also, I have been able to beat
Costco's price by going through the fleet managers. People think you
have to be a business to use them, but you don't. See what kind of
bid you can get on the Internet. The person who answers you will
probably be fleet management.

 

I did that same thing. Costco price, walk in, buy the car.
The Civic Hybrid didn't have any options other than transmission in 2003,
and that option is gone for 2006. There are some factory options now, but
no dealer addons.

I bought an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty. The price offered was something
like $1700. When I said no, thanks, he suddenly "remembered" that I was on
Costco pricing, and offered it to me for $1143. It is also refundable
after 8 years if I don't use it. I'm getting close to exhausting it, at
70,000 miles, but I won't get the refund until 8 years.

If you are buying a "California AT-PZEV" model, available in 11 states,
check that warranty. Lots of stuff is covered 15/150,000.

I bought a set of floor mats at Kragen that look like "factory" color.

 

The low vlotage battery has some pro-rating applied, the hybrid battery
does not.

 

Depends how long you want to keep the car. Buying used is a real minefield.
You don't know where the previous owner planted his little time bombs of
negligence and shoddy repair.

However, I would not purchase a hybrid for long-term ownership. I can see it
being a major pain in the ass once it's over ten years old or so.

for long-term ownership, the newer and the simpler the better.

If I ever replace my Integra, I am going to buy new if I can afford it.

 

I think that is pretty steep depreciation for a Honda, but it is
certainly worth checking what 1-3 year old hybrids are selling for.
The OP might want to shop around a little using the quote as a
starting point with other local dealers.

Honda warranties the battery for 8 years/80K. In some states it is 10
years/100K. No mention of it being pro-rated. Generally, extended
warranties aren't worth the cost, but new technology

Certainly none of the magic elixirs. The Honda floor mats are much
nicer than aftermarket, but they are more expensive. You can always
buy them later but, if you call around the dealers and know what is a
good price, you can try to negotiate a discount when you are
purchasing the car.

You also want to know how you are financing this car before you go to
the dealer. You might be able to get better financing at the dealer
but you have to know your alternatives.

And don't sign anything without checking every number. Bring a
calculator. Some dealers use document preparation as a major profit
center.

It is about the same premium you would pay for the Si model and that
certainly won't pay for itself. My preference would be for the Si,
but I am sure the hybrid will be a good car and it just might pay for
itself after all - at least that is what Consumer Reports projects.

If you really want to save money, buy a two or three-year-old Civic DX
with a manual transmission and drive it to 150,000 miles and beyond.
Better yet, just keep driving what you got.

I think that is good advice. Most people can't afford to pay cash but
if you have to stretch it beyond 36 months, you might consider a
cheaper car.

 

Compare it to the included warranty.
You may find nothing worthwhile is added, but it costs a lot.

I believe the battery has a long warranty. You shouldn't plan on
keeping it beyond 5 or 6 yrs as the hybrid battery will then be losing
capacity and becoming less effective every day. When it needs a new
hybrid battery the cost is very high. It may be difficult to sell it at
7/8 yrs, unless a new battery is installed.

Pure dealer profit.
Not even needed on our Canadian salty winter roads.
It may even be worse to have extra bottom protection.
Extra paint protection shouldn't be needed.

Definitely.

Are you sure the hybrid is a good choice for you?
If you drive mostly stop and go city it is probably worthwhile.
If you drive mostly highway it isn't.

 

My 2003 Hybrid with 70,000 miles was 20,100 new, 12,400 trade-in now,
according to Kelly Blue Book. The Private Party value is 14,600.

A 2006 (newest "used" on KBB.com) has a trade-in of 20,600, compared to a
2007 new of 23,195, with an invoice of 20,676.

 

There is no after market for the HV battery packs, but I suspect that as
some of them come out of warranty, that market will develop.

The Honda is just a bunch of D-cells, under $1000 if you buy in quantity.

If the battery pack were quite low on capacity in its later years, the
car would still run, it would just be a 1300cc gas motor. It has a 12v
battery and starter (at least in 2003), so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Thanks for all the very good input. My inclination would be to buy a
used car but I am doing this for my wife who will appreciate the new
car more than saving money. - she is frugal in many ways but says for
once in her life she would like a new car, and we ain't getting any
younger. She's been driving a 91 Accord for the last 14 years.
Still drives great but the electronics are doing funky things and it's
got some oil and other fluid leaks. -- I drive a 94 Chevy Astro
6cyl and I'm happy with it.

The listed price difference between a new Civic Hybrid and regular
Civic Sedan Lx is about $5000. (I'm assuming the Hybrid is fitted
out like the LX). There is a tax credit of $2100 for the Hybrid so
the difference becomes $3K. Since she drives about $12K a year it's
going to take quite a while to make the Hybrid pay for itself and
that's not taking into account the extra hit when you have to replace
the batteries. So I'm aware that the new hybrid isn't the smartest
move economically.

Just went to the local dealer and asked a lot of questions got some
answers:

There are a few differences between the Hybrid and the Civic LX. The
Hybrid has electric steering, brake assist, auto climate control, more
speakers in the sound system. exterior temp sensor, spoiler and turn
signals on the side mirrors. The rear seat can not fold down to make
the rear trunk bigger.

The factory warranty 3 yr 36K bumper to bumper, 5yr 60K power train,
15yer 150K on IMA (electric stuff of the hybrid).

Replacing a battery module is $3600 - I have to call the guy back to
learn about whether the battery is covered in the 15 yr 150K IMA.

Extras:
Paint protection and upholstery protection - I don't want it.
Undercoating - I don't want it.

Honda Care -- he didn't want to give me an exact price but said around
$2K extends bumper to bumper to 8yr 120K. It doesn't cover catalytic
converter, muffler, exhaust pipe or paint osmetics. Theoritcally you
need to be doing the regular maintenance to not void that warranty.
That would be oil changes ($40), minor tuneups ($140) every 10K and
major tuneups efvery 30K ($389). Not sure whether it's worth it.

Starguard security key for around $500. Might go with that. He
explained that you need the starguard key inserted to run the car and
that avoids the VIN identity theft tricks. I asked him whether that
avoids the brake release tricks that I recently read on this newsgroup
and he wasn't aware of that vulnerability.

Also went for a drive in the car and it drives nicely although it
doesn't have the power that I'm used to. I'm usually a slow driver so
that's okay. I did like the handling.

 

Eight grand for one year on an economox is incredibly expensive.

 

I found the Honda Care offered online for A LOT LESS. Looks like
$1215.00 zero deductable.

/Samson

 

Costco pricing should affect the Honda Care price as well. You should have
received an email from Costco with contact information. Costco is
aggressive about making sure that their contracted terms are met.

The service prices vary. In San Jose, prices for the 10k service were over
$100, in Napa, $50. They both charge a premium for the 0-20 oil.

In California, the catalytic converter, muffler and exhaust should be
covered 15/150 by the emissions warranty.

The power is "different". You would find that you probably accelerate more
quickly away from a light than a standard Civic, it just doesn't feel like
it.

 

Eight grand for four years, 70,000 miles isn't quite so expensive.

 

I'm doing some googling to try to find info and pricing about this and
finding almost nothing. I am trying "star guard" "starguard" "star
gard" "stargard". Not much info out there. I must be spelling it
wrong or something.

\Samson

 

Danger Danger: this sounds like a non-Honda electrical item which will
cause problems down the road. It also sounds like a very high priced
key switch. Is auto theft that big a problem where you are?

 

Yes, it is non-Honda.

Okay. That option (along with the paint products, undercoating, floor
mats, etc) is out too. Looks like I can simply buy the car with no
extras.

Thanks for the advice,

\Samson

 

Just called Costco. It didn't sound like it would save me any
hassles. Costco is telling me over the phone. All they are doing is
referring me to local dealer. I still have to argue with the salesguy
when I get there and he can still tell me whatever he wants.

Let's say I know for sure that I don't intend to buy any of the extras
(which I am starting to come to conclusion is the way to go) and I go
in to buy without saying I want the costco price. I just want the car
price (somewhere between invoice and MSRP), delivery, and tax and
license. The salesman realizes that he is not going to make any of
those high commission sales, so he gives me a high car price. Then I
say I want the costco price. Will he have to lower the price or will
he say "That is the Costco price"? I guess what I'm asking is how
do I know what the Costco price is?

\Samson

 

The mats in my 06 Accord coupe were quite cheap and lasted less than year.
Buy aftermarket with a heel pad. The mats I had in my 01 Prelude were
substantially better quality new than what you get today in the Accord.