CR-V Fuel pump labor

My 2000 Honda CR-V died on the interstate yesterday. When I tried to
restart it, it would crank fine but not catch. I figure this means
it's the fuel or ignition. The mechanic's guess is that the fuel pump
failed. His guess was based on not smelling any gas when he cranked
the engine. Is that a valid test?

He said that if it turns out to be the fuel pump, he'd have to remove
the fuel tank to get to the pump. However, looking at my repair
manual, there's an access panel under the rear left seat that leads to
the fuel pump. No need to remove the fuel tank. The mechanic said it
would cost about $500 (parts+labor) to replace the fuel pump with an
aftermarket one. I see that aftermarket replacement pumps cost
anywhere from $35 to $220 online.

Does the $500 estimate sound reasonable? How many hours work is it to
replace the fuel pump?

Thanks

 

When the car died, did any warning lights come on? If not, the cause may
likely be the ignition switch. Chances are your car was part of that
massive ignition switch recall from a few years back.

Another possibility: I'm not completely sure, but I think the engine in this
version of CR-V uses a timing belt. If the timing belt has never been
replaced (and it would have been overdue by now), it may have broken and
possibly damaged the valves, resulting in big bucks to fix.

But have the issue properly troubleshot and diagnosed first before
attempting to replace parts at random.

 

In answer to your questions.

1. That is a valid way to test for the presence of gas. If you are
cranking the engine to start it, and the engine doesn't start, then it
should flood if there is gas coming up front. You usually can smell a
flooded engine. There are more reliable tests. Take off that access
port and have someone crank the engine while you listen to the top of
the fuel pump with a stethoscope. You should hear a whirring if the
pump is working. Usually it is audible without the stethoscope.

2. Ive replaced the fuel pump in a few cars. They used to have cars
where the pump wasn't even in the tank. Imagine that? BUT, for cars
like yours with an access pump it shouldn't take long to replace. I
recently replaced the fuel pump in a Honda. It took about 40
minutes. If you are savvy at all, you can do it yourself. It is not
a mystery or a dead language, it can be done.

3. The price of the fuel pump will depend upon the brand and the
supplier. Usually OEM parts tend to be more expensive, but using the
proper replacement part will come with certain guarantees. You know
that the OEM part was made specifically to fit in this car. No part
of it will have to be bent, clipped off or otherwise reshaped to fit
into place.

Peace!
Jack

 

That depends.

If there is no ignition event, the ECU/ECM/PCM will refuse to fire the
injectors, so no gas and no start and no flood.

Plus you can fix it.

Simply hold the pedal right to the floor and crank. Provided you've not
got thick floor mats bulking things up and holding the pedal off the
floor, the ECU/ECM/PCM will interpret the resulting WOT combined with
starter operation as a signal to shut off the injectors so as to clear a
flooded condition.

It's a lot easier to simply pull the gas filler cap and listen with your
ears. The pump will run for two seconds when the key is first turned to
"II". You will hear a whine/buzz.

If you wear a hearing aid, as I do, it's even easier. Just switch the
aid to the "T" setting and listen as you turn the key to "II".

<snip>

OEM is far better /build quality/, never mind physical fit. Materials
are higher quality, bearings are bigger, seals are better, fit is
better, all sorts of things.

If I had the time and inclination, I'd regale you for hours with horror
stories of all the shit aftermarket junk I've seen and heard of over the
years.

Do yourself a favor and buy OEM. For the average driver who just needs
his car to get from work to home without fail, OEM is well worth the
extra cost.

 

Question. Does the inertial kill switch kill the whole thing, or just
the pump? Or do Hondas even have one? (I know my CRX did).

On both my CRX and 96 Civic (and my wife's 96 Accord) you could hear
the pump spin up. Of course, these were manuals, so I waited a second
or so before pushing the clutch in.

I'll bet you're fun to be around when the battery starts to go. At
least my m-i-l is.

--

- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

 

I didnt get into the whole OEM vs Aftermarket debate but it should be
understood, and I stand by my point, the OEM part was made
specifically for the vehicle. It was what they had in mind when they
were testing the car and it is was they intended to be on the vehicle
on the road. There may be parts out there that are considered
upgrades or mods or what have you, and they may well be of better
quality (if so they are probably more expensive), BUT you had better
be aware of any other changes they may bring to the table. I am
always suspect of any part that claims to be universal. Car shapes,
sizes, engines, electrical systems and designs are surely not
universal, how could the parts be? Perhaps light bulbs are universal
in some cars, but then even that is sometimes not true.

So far, it has been my experience when dealing with engines,
especially temperamental ones, that you should use the parts intended
for the vehicle. I've tried to get by on parts that were "close" only
to replace them and reinvest time and more money into a situation that
would have been cheaper just to put the OEM part in to begin with. I
don't have any scary stories along those lines, just stories that
involve money being dumped down the drain. Ask Tegger for the scary
stories.

Just because something comes from NAPA doesn't necessarily mean it is
the Original Equipment for your vehicle. Ask them. Places like
AutoZone and Advance will usually give you the option of OEM and
Aftermarket.

Listening at the fuel door is just as well. I thought you were
already down as far as the access hatch to your fuel pump was the
reason I suggested what I did.

If they are now suggesting that something is wrong in your ignition
system and are requesting that you replace it all, you may want to
check it further yourself, OR take it and get a second opinion. If
the consensus is to replace the ignition system then let it be so.

Good luck.

Peace!
Jack

 

That's been my experience, too. I am stubborn so I had to do a lot more
rework than I might have but the message got through. Aftermarket is okay
for consumables - batteries, tires, wiper blades - but should be carefully
considered otherwise. Spark plugs and belts often come in quality
aftermarket varieties, and I'm sure there are quality aftermarket brake
components out there. As you say, expect to pay more than OEM. But buying
aftermarket water pumps, starters and alternators gets old real quickly.
"Lifetime warranty" doesn't put a smile on my face when I am changing some
inaccessible component for the fourth time.

Most recent scary story: my son put NAPA ignition parts in his Acura. A few
months later the rotor broke - the plastic broke away from the metal collar
that held it. He had to have it towed (it was on the freeway at night) and
then we had to address the problem of the dust shield the broken rotor tore
up. The OEM version was much more solid.

Mike

 

:

NAPA/AZ/Advance/whoever _cannot_ give you OEM. They can only give you "OEM-
spec", or "OEM quality". Both are most definitely aftermarket and of
aftermarket quality.

OEM _only_ comes from a Honda dealer.

 

I don't know.

What's a pain these days is how the batteries now last a couple of
weeks, so you forget when you put the last one in, and I keep forgetting
to carry a spare with me.

Modern digital aids stay at full volume for a while even with a failing
battery, but they give you a series of tones (that only you hear) when
the voltage begins falling. This gives you an hour or so to round a up a
replacement before it fails outright. The old analog aids would simply
go dead on you with little warning.

 

not necessary - the ecu switches the pump off after two seconds of
ignition on but no engine run. if the crash is severe enough to kill the
electrics, the problem is still solved.

 

the real question is why is he replacing the pump in the first place? do
we have diagnostics supporting that? sounds like a typical rip-em-off
mechanic guess to me.

 

OKAY, so what I am seeing here is that when the stores tell me that it
is an OEM part they are really saying it is supposedly up to "OEM"
specs but not really an OEM part? Well that sucks. I had no idea
about that.

On a high note I cleaned the EGR valve this weekend on my 97 Jaguar
VDP (AJ16 X300 series) and gained about 8mpg. Wooo HOOO!!! That was
an easy fix and I can't begin to tell you how delighted I am. Just
thought I'd share. The good thing about that car is that nothing but
OEM exists for it. You really have to modify anything else to make it
fit, so OEM is always the best way to go and it pays to know where to
get the best prices for actual OEM ie. Lucas or what have you parts.

Thanks again Tegger for keeping us ontrack. My son's little Honda is
doing great for a 3 cylinder. At this point it gets him where it
needs to and in the event it dies I have free towing and can be
wherever he is in less than an hour. I am still looking for a
replacement BT to drop into his chassis that is in good working
order. Would the Lx (Carbureted engine do okay in that car?)

I also echo Jim's question. Did we ever figure out for sure if this
guy's problem was his fuel pump? I wondered if it could be as simple
as the EFI main relay, but does this car have that little doo-dad?

Peace!
Jack the Barbarian.

 

That's my mother-in-law's problem. She has one of the ungodly
expensive Siemens over the ear. She used to have two cheaper ones,
but she complained about noise.

Thank goodness for 24 hour Walgreens.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

Men are like a carpet. Lay them well and you can
walk on them for years.

 

My wife had a 84 Escort GT. She was rear ended one day, just a hard
bump. She had the clutch in, but the car just died. And wouldn't
crank. Tow truck driver went into the trunk, pulled and access panel
and showed where where the reset switch was. Then charged us $45. But
we got it back when the hit & run driver was arrested. If you're
going to drive off, don't do it at the first on-ramp to have a camera
installed!
--

- dillon I am not invalid

Men are like a carpet. Lay them well and you can
walk on them for years.

 

Ford was doing that even into the '90s, I think. I ran across it on an
in-law's Escort. For all I know they are doing it still.

Most cars use the "ignition firing" criterion. I had an '84 Nissan that had
some sort of ECU problem in which the fuel pump control part didn't know the
ignition was still going. It would die like clockwork while I was driving,
requiring me to push in the clutch and use the starter to reset it. I
eventually had to bypass the safety cutout.

Mike