Clutch life?

I'm still driving the first Honda I ever owned. It's a 98 Accord coupe 4
cyl/5 speed which now has 225k on it, but still on the original clutch. I
purchased it new and the first 100k were mostly highway miles but the last
125k are about 70% city.
Normal for Honda? Just wondering.
Clutches on my Saabs never lasted this long. 120-150k and gone.

 

Not necessarily ABnormal. If you know how to drive it properly, it
shouldn't have a problem lasting. It wears only when you cause it to
wear. Don't slip it excessively and don't sit with the pedal pushed
in--not hard to do, but all too few people do it right.

 

There is no "normal". Clutch life is 100% dependent on how you drive.
That's why automakers will not warrantee clutches.

I got almost 256K out of /my/ original clutch, which is apparently a record
at my dealership. That probably means you're getting close to the end of
/your/ clutch.

If you can excuse the unfortunate "fine writing" which I have not yet
corrected, this page may be of interest:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/clutch/index.html>

 

the analysis of why the gear shifting problem was starting to show is
incorrect. the reason shifting became difficult was because the
friction disk hub was no longer floating on the input shaft and was
starting to bind, and thus it was continuing to receive drive input when
it shouldn't have been because it wasn't releasing properly. that is
why the shaft teeth are coated in powdered [subsequently oxidized] metal
and one side of the friction material is more worn than the other.

in factory, the splines of the input shaft and the disk hub should be
coated in a very thin layer of antiseize or anti friction material. if
this is inadequate, or simply becomes overwhelmed by debris, the
anti-friction properties diminish, and the splines start to rub and
wear. once this wear has reached the stage where there's oxide
accumulating, and this disk is choked with it, then the hub starts to bind.

damage to the springs, while a factor in noise [rattle] and take-up
smoothness, does not affect the friction surface release. indeed, i've
seen friction disks with springs completely broken and retainers way
more chewed than this, and apart form the noise, transmission operation
has been unaffected because the disk has still been releasing properly.

whenever fitting a new clutch, especially on a transmission input shaft
where wear will be evident such as the case here, it should always be
thoroughly cleaned to remove oxides and accumulated abrasion product,
and a thin layer of [i use copper] antiseize applied. its life will
subsequently be long and smooth, and more importantly, transmission life
will be extended because of lower load on the synchros.

 

But that's exactly what I said.
See the section entitled, "The source of the problem".

Like I said...

 

so you understand the problem well enough to go ahead and describe the
process for resolution then...

binding is quite a common problem with high-count spline patterns like
this. high spline count is good in that the splines are rolled into the
shaft and are thus more fatigue resistant. but the contact area is
wedge shaped and thus subject to more abrasion as it slides. in low
count dog tooth spline designs, the shaft has to be machined, is less
fatigue resistant, but is pretty much immune from this kind of problem
[unless there's an extreme abnormality like water immersion].

 

Thanks, it was interesting.

 

My wife's 96 Accord went 146K when we sold it in 2007 and the buyer (a
friend) reports no problems at 175K, much of that last ~30K being
up-down-up-down street driving. The only clutch problem she had was
when she lost a seal on the slave and had to essentially slam shift
between neutral and 2nd down to the dealer. Oh, THAT will tear a
clutch up if anything will.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

Jayne Cobb: "So doc, what's it feel like to kill a man?"

Simon Tam:"I'm not sure, it's still sinking in"

Shepard Book: "Son, given your shooting, I think you have
still not killed a man"

 

Uh, not true. My son's F-150 had the slave cylinder leak oil
all over the clutch plate. We only noticed the leak when the
clutch start slipping. Ford replaced the slave cylinder, clutch
plate, disk, throwout bearing, etc. at their expense at 30K miles.

Lynn

 

Did you put a new one in or get a different car? It's a decision I'll
probably have to be making soon on a 13 yr old car w/225k on it. Runs
great, no rust, at least on the upper body. The entire rear license, light
holder, rusted out, but I just drilled a hole through the plastic above the
plate and glued it in there.
When we lived in Vegas for a couple of years ago, I took the car in and I
don't remember for what, but they put it up on the hoist and the first thing
the mechanic says is: Oh, you must be from back East with all the rust
under here.

 

Put a new one in. All OEM parts. That clutch now has 108,000 miles on it.

Rust is a plague up here. Causes all sorts of headaches, plus a lot of
added expense keeping a car going.

 

<snipped text to which Lynn is not responding, and which she should have
snipped when replying>

When I said "clutch life", I meant the friction disc, not the hydraulics.
The friction disc is a consumable; it is meant to eventually wear out, and
how long that takes is 100% dependent on you.

In the case of your son's F150, it was the slave cylinder that was
warranteed, not the friction disc. The dealer had to correct all the
damaged parts the failed slave committed, one of which happened to be the
friction disc.

 

I sure wish you had not mentioned your clutch life. ;-}

My 1999 Accord has just at 260,000 miles on the original clutch and I
am about to go on a two week trip of a few thousand miles. Just what
I need is to lose the clutch while out in the wilds of the
Midwest.

Your HondaFAQ is a wonderful thing and I really enjoyed the discussion
of the clutch issues.

Thanks for helping the community!

 

Very true. His F-150 has the 4.0L V6 and we found out that
the gearbox is a mazda build instead of the tough as nails
V8 variety. I do note now that Ford has totally dropped all
manual transmissions in their F-150 and above trucks. BTW,
he is closing in on 100K miles in that truck.

Lynn

 

The transmission was built to Ford specs. And the engine was also a
Mazda engine. It's the top end for the Ranger/Mazda B series pickups.
Are they even around? (I'm looking for something with a little more
umph to tow my 30 ft trailer.)

The transmission had nothing to do with this failure. It was all due
to a "Ford" part, the slave cylinder. Who actually made it is up to
speculation.

At which point this discussion becomes moot because it has nothing to
do with a) Hondas and 2) clutch life.


To ensure the death of this thread:

You sound just like Hitler!!!!
--

- dillon I am not invalid

"You idiots, it's rape, pillage,THEN BURN!!!"
--- chief of the Aggie Vikings

 

I see the smiley, but I need to respond. Clutch failure is a slow,
horrible death. You should notice it well in advance. I've been told
by people who had no idea how their car operated that they knew
something was wrong well before the actual disk failure. Now whether
they did anything about it is another matter.

Agreed.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

"You idiots, it's rape, pillage,THEN BURN!!!"
--- chief of the Aggie Vikings