Civis Si sedan

BTW, saw this on the dealer's floor yesterday, a coppery red color, I
guess Habanero Red, and it looks seriously hot! They had every option
on it it could carry, then a market adjustment of $5k, for a total of
about $28k. Didn't see a nitro button, tho ...

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/exterior_colors.asp?ModelName=Civic+Si+Sedan

Do these engines really hold up if you rev them past 6k on a regular
basis, cuz that's where the power is, right?

Sigh. Just nowhere to drive such things anymore in Los Angeles. TMC.

J.

 

yes. if anything, they run better - you burn all the crud out.

dunno about that dude... last couple of times i've been on the ventura
freeway late at night, it's been a regular "fast & furious" race track.

if you're serious about a "fun" vehicle, go for older stuff - obdI or
even obd0. [obdII and later computers store your usage history, which
could be a problem. if you know what i mean.] do the math. $28k for a
new civic vs. $5k for an older civic. [less if you go for the 88-91's.]
that leaves you $23k for upgrades. if you stick to mechanicals that
actually work [rather than rice crap] you'd have a hard time spending it
all and the vehicle will go like a freakin' rocket. like this one:
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/Larryscivic/Larrys_Civic.htm

 

Dunno about that. Quite a build-up, but had to be costly.

There's at least $25k worth of photo documentation on that puppy...

 

Wear the rings out too. I'm in that situation right now. Constant 4K rpm
usage has toasted the rings, which is why my oil consumption is so high
(1600mi/qt at 278,000 miles).

Don't care how well an engine is made, high piston speeds quickly erode
rings.

Well sure, late at night. Just don't try the 405 at 4:00pm on a
weekday...

 

"quickly"??? dude, drive a ford for a couple of years, then get back to
loving your "quickly eroded" b-series.

 

Not your 91 Integra? Say it ain't so!

You ever solve that problem that led you to replace the fuel
injectors, etc.?

 

T'is! Same car! Got a smog check next spring, too. Original cat. Will I
pass? Stay tuned!

Nope. Same vibration. It gets lots worse in cold weather, almost
disappears in hot weather. I've replaced both lower mounts. The front
one was a piece of cake, the rear one was a good two hours labor, and
required the engine to be lifted up three inches.

I have a new theory...

The RIGHT upper mount is twisted to the rear.The LEFT upper mount is
twisted to the front. The right upper mount contacts the frame on hard
acceleration.

I suspect the engine/transaxle assembly is torqued clockwise (when
viewed from above) on account of the differential being on the right,
thus pulling the works to the rear on that side and distorting the
mounts. My mechanic still thinks it's not the mounts, but otherwise has
no idea what's going on. Cars with mileages over 200K are fairly rare
(and over 250K almost non-existent), so most mechanics are in uncharted
territory when troubleshooting them.

The upper mounts are much beefier than the lower ones, so I suspect they
carry most of the load. It will cost me about $300Cdn to replace both
uppers, so I'm going to live with the annoyance for a while longer.

 

for brevity, snipped good info

Do continue to keep the newsgroup informed. Your 91 Integra
is the benchmark for my 91 Civic! IOW, I want to know when I
need to start getting serious about buying another car.

Like I brag all the time to friends, though, I am not giving
up a car that continues to give me 40 mpg even in winter.
'Course my fix for the rust around the wheel wells is
getting to be an eyesore, and I might cave to vanity in a
couple of years.

 

Greed! $28k is a ridiculous price, but someone will pay it.

 

An older car is a hobby. Can be *lots* of work.

It can also get expensive (but not nearly as expensive as a new car!)

I get 30mpg. No more.

Rust. I do believe that's the defining factor here.

My previous car, a 1982 Toyota Corolla, delineated its own life-limits in
rust. Had it not got crusty, I'd probably still have it. As it was, I
refused to pour more money into the beast, not knowing how long the body
would hold out.

When is the right time to buy a different car? When you lose confidence in
your current one. It's purely a personal and emotional decision.

Mine has no rust. Years of elbow grease (and wonderfully messy eastern-
Canadian anti-rust treatments) have seen to that. Lack of rust makes it a
bit difficult to decide whether or not to sell or scrap an old, worn car.

I just priced some engine work. A very reputable place near me can rebuild
my original engine for $2800Cdn. A good used motor is $900. A brand-new
short-block from Honda is $4000. I have no intention of getting rid of my
car, so in a few years I'll have to do something one way or another.

I took some pics just now (yes that's snow you see). Car hasn't been washed
in at least two months, so it's pretty dirty. See here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/teg_nov-06/

 

It's kept me out of trouble.

You bet!

One thing I regret is that I will likely not roll the dice
on a used car, which means the new Honda or Toyota (one or
the other, most likely) I buy inevitably will have all the
latest electronic controls. I hope it's not overwhelming. I
/like/ being able to take off the distributor; check the
timing; set valve lash; etc. Of course, there may be
maintenance items equivalent to this, but requiring a lot
less backbreaking labor. I wonder how the bushings last on
these newer Hondas.

Being frugal, perhaps the low end Hondas and Toyota will
still have plenty of DIY mechanical/electrical stuff.

Right, from your photos, you got me there!

I'd sure like to see more reports here of folks swapping
engines. Not to beef up the car but just to keep using a
perfectly good body. I think it imprudent for my Honda, but
we'll see.

Take 'er to 300k (miles)!

 

Part of my reasons for keeping the old '91 is the horrendous complexity
of new cars.

In some ways they're easier to take care of: Timing chains instead of
belts; no distributors; and in the case of Toyotas, cam lobes that ride
directly on the valve tops and require no attention for a decade
provided you change your oil.

In some ways they're scary: Dual 4-wire oxygen sensors; catalytic
converters operating at the peak of their capabilities; airbags
everywhere (which require to be inspected and replaced every ten
years)...

Don't count on it. There isn't much you can do with any of the new
rides. I know. We have a '99 Tercel, as low end as you can get. Beyond
very basic maintenance, there isn't a lot you can do.

She'll make it no prob. I'm suspecting I'll need a replacement cat
though.
See earlier emissions results:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/91_integra_emissions.html
The last two have varied wildly at idle, which, according to my
contacts, suggests a failing cat. I had originally thought it had to do
with test equipment variability, but it looks more like it has to do
with reduced cat efficiency.

 

think very carefully about this one. i've done some failure analysis in
the past, and the very tiniest amount of grit left over from cylinder
honing can seriously affect ring wear and consequently oil consumption.
[and cylinder head work - you had that done recently didn't you?] if
you cut the engine up and put it under the microscope, you can see it.
you have to be scrupulously clean to minimize this grit and go to great
lengths to remove it. hardly anyone bothers. a shop may be reputable,
but bear in mind, once rebuilt, most people don't keep the car long
enough to see long term testing of their work.

if it were my car, and i had the luxury of time on my side, i'd
seriously consider the good used engine. only if the machine shop were
truly anal would i consider the rebuilt motor as an option for a car i
considered a "keeper".

for a vehicle driven in those conditions, that's mighty purty!

 

did you get anywhere with the ignition leads? mine have been running
great since i switched to coiled core leads. i have both these:
http://ngk.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=1168286&pid=17331
http://magnecor.com/magnecor1/files/electrosports-80.pdf

i generally think oem quality is great, but there's no doubt that in
this instance, my sub-3k mile oem plug leads were acting up, especially
in colder damper weather. both these are better quality than oem.

 

oops, that's 30k, not 3k!

 

When I had an Alfa, standard freeway driving was 4,000 RPM.
Technically it was the model for early Honda engines, aluminum block
and head, but with iron liners. Well, not entirely the model, as the
Alfa drank oil on spec, loose piston rings. Couldn't get that past
later smog rules.

Is yours an aluminum block with no liners, like current Hondas, even
the S2000? Those are the ones I wonder about.

J.

 

hondas have iron liners [or carbon composites for the exotics]. afaik,
the only vehicles to try using all alloy blocks were porsche with their
928 v8's. didn't work very well.

 

I believe the Chevrolet Vega engines were not sleeved, only nitrided
somehow. A friend had overheated a Vega when a hose failed and it wouldn't
run after that; the coolant level pumped when he cranked the engine. We saw
why when we pulled the head - the cylinders were cast as mesas in the block
and sat in a pool of coolant (assuming there was enough coolant). When the
coolant level dropped the cylinders softened at the top and no longer pushed
against the head gasket. A replacement engine from a wrecking yard got him
going again. I think that puts the Vega engine in the "didn't work very
well" category.

MIke

 

Bzzt, wrong.

My 87 Accord had iron liners, but that design ended in the early
1990's. There's some magic process they do that chemically forms a
silicon-composite coating on the cylinder walls, and I think the S2000
uses a different alloy that forms a better coating, but unless I've
misunderstood for a long time, the iron liners are long gone, along
with carbuerators and mechanical distributors. Next to go: camshafts.

J.

 

the silicon relief etching is what was tried on the porsche. it worked
fine in the lab, but was not good in practice.

the honda solution is to cast a thin iron liner into the block. it's
only a few mm. go to a junk yard and check out the motors that have had
their heads pulled. the outside of the wet liners are indeed alloy from
the casting, but scrape the top face, and you'll see the change in color
between the two materials - the interior is most definitely iron.

it's a carbon matrix liner, and it too is cast into the alloy block.

iron liners are very much alive. there's nothing to touch iron for wear
and heat transfer at that price point.

camshafts will be with us for a while longer. there's plenty of other
actuation devices which theoretically could offer significant
advantages, but it's hard to replicate the "gradual opening" effect of a
cam driven valve - and that has substantial gas flow benefit - without
spending a good chunk of change. different valve operation would offer
the "holy grail" of truly variable valve timing, but let's be realistic,
there's no way a manufacturer is going to substitute 100+ year
reliability that costs maybe $100 for the whole shooting match in
quantity, with something that's going to cost $1,000+ which for most
applications, offers no benefit. even F1 doesn't have engines haven't
abandoned cams, and if there is a bottomless money pit into which
engineering initiative is dropped, it is F1.