Civic Hybrid or Prius owners...

hi, i am currently looking for a new car.i know it will be a hybrid.my
question is are you happy with your hybrid? what do you like/dislike about
it?I'd like to hear your experiences with them.thanks, Nick

 

Wait a minute: why will it be a hybrid?

The *only* reason to buy a hybrid today is to make a statement about
your politics. You do not save money--in fact, you spend much more just
for the privilege of having a hybrid--and you save very little gas.

So what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe there's a better way to get
there.

 

I have to agree. The hybrids are not giving their owners fantastic fuel
mileage. In fact, a diesel powered vehicle gives superior mileage, with less
parts to maintain.

--
Brian

http://www.cakesbydarlene.ca

http://www.accesswave.ca/~orion

 

Some people want to buy a SUV, some want to buy a hybrid. If that's what
they want, then good for them.

Hybrids get about 55 mpg. My regular civic gets 35 mpg. Assuming 12,000
miles driven annually, over 10 years, hybrids will consume 2,182
gallons. My civic will consume 3,429 gallons. That's a difference of
1,247 gallons. Multiply that by 20,000 people, for example, and that's a
lot of gas saved.

Why question people's buying decisions? What are you trying to
accomplish? Nick directed his question to hybrid owners asking for their
insight. Your post was not insightful.

 

I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids, and
have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned, is that
diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United States--the
oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only compare to what's
currently available for sale in the U.S. A comparison of a regular civic
vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now.

 

jajabinks wrote:

istr isuzu being players in the eurodiesel engine market. aren't honda
& isuzu partners? wouldn't that be a pathway towards a diesel civic?

 

jim beam wrote:
| jajabinks wrote:
| <snip>
||
|| I agree that diesel cars have an ecological advantage over hybrids,
|| and have lower cost of ownership. They key, as you also mentioned,
|| is that diesel is unfortunately not widely available in the United
|| States--the oil consumption capitol of the world. We can only
|| compare to what's currently available for sale in the U.S. A
|| comparison of a regular civic vs. civic hybrid vs. civic diesel
|| (yeah right) is a pipe dream for now.
|
| istr isuzu being players in the eurodiesel engine market. aren't
| honda & isuzu partners? wouldn't that be a pathway towards a diesel
| civic?

You better check out the UK site of Honda, then... http://www.honda.co.uk
To save you some digging, here's a 3 door Civic with 1.7L turbo-diesel:
http://tinyurl.com/67f53 (make sure the drop-down box says 1.7 CTDi)

(before you get way too excited about the mileage, remember that it's not US
gallons that they're quoting... if I'm not wrong, you'll have to multiply
them by 0.83267248, which would give you 37.3 mpg (US) in town, 53.5 mpg
(US) outside of the town, and 47.0 mpg (US) mixed usage.

Now, to combine that with a hybrid... store brake energy to make the car get
back up to speed again after a stop, and your in-town figure would increase
drastically...

Also, check out the diesel Accord, and if you think this diesel crap is for
buses and trucks and lowly 3 door accords, check out the BMW diesel cars -
http://tinyurl.com/5cldh for example. Did you ever think a heavy 5 series
beamer with a 3 liter V6 engine would have a mileage > 40 mpg? No? Think
again:
city: 24.8 mpg (US)
highway: 42.8 mpg (US)
combined: 34.1 mpg (US)

Tell you, gas needs to become a bit more expensive before this wave catches
on... but it'd be good for all of us (except those running oil companies)

 

But it's no money saved, since the hybrid will cost much more up front
than that 1,247 gallons of gas costs.

 

He didn't specify what help he was looking for; it's common for people
not to have thought about things in a big picture way, and it's helpful
for them to explain their real goals and get input.

 

i really got interested in hybrids after watching a show on pbs with alan
alda(anyone see it?)and iceland is leading the way in hydrogen
hybrids,hydrogen/electric.i want a hybrid because i'm sick of sending money
to the middle east,i want a more eco friendly car,better mileage,less
pollution.to me so what if they're a little more expensive,it's the
priciple,it's time we find a way to lessen our depenece on oil and find
alternative sources of energy(hydrogen,solar,wind,electric,etc.).did you see
the bike on american chopper that runs on either gas or ethanol? great idea
if you ask me.

 

Do you know anyone who'd rather shop at mom & pop shops instead of
Walmart? It's not always about money--it's the principle. My previous
post did not focus on money but on actual gas saved. 1,247 is a lot of
gallons. Notice I didn't compare hybrids to SUV's or minivans because
they are in different car markets.

Hybrid owners enjoy the satisfaction of being less dependent on oil
companies. Maybe someday we will see cars running on cold fusion (that
won't explode on impact, preferably).

 

I too viewed that hybrid show on PBS and found it of real interest.
71 mpg for city driving in a Prius at $30,000 CDN sure gets my attention.
Whether or not that is cost effective or not, it has to be darn close.
I have wondered however about battery life and what to do when it's toast.
At this point long term results must only be theory but by the time I am
ready for a new vehicle (2 years) I am sure the choice will be greater and
the longevity somewhat more proven and maybe even better economics.

Mike

 

to a large extent, the hybrid is the auto makers dream. batteries have
a limited life, replacement is prohibitively expensive, and it can't be
done by joes garage down the street - it has to be done by the dealer,
if at all. therefore, guess what? you have dealer lock-in! every 5
years or so, you /have/ to pay a fortune or buy a new car!!! it's
absolutely an auto makers dream.

personally, i think diesel is a good solution. at the refinery level,
the fuel's cheaper to produce than gas, less gets used, and you have the
freedom of a mechanical system that is not locked into one specific
provider.

 

Wait a minute.

In my HUMBLE opinion the dream car would be
a hybrid diesel. Apparently, nobody has a grasp
of BOTH techniques.

 

wait a minute - if your diesel hybrid has the same batteries and has to
go to the same dealer, where's the difference?...

the diesel-electric concept is ancient. railroad engines have been
using them for decades. it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the
limited battery life/cost equation locking you into the dealer and their
opportunity for gouging that i have a problem with. congress sees fit
to mandate that obdc II is "open" to prevent dealer lock-in. unless
congress has the same foresight regarding hybrids, and i don't see how
it can force manufacturers to use the same battery packs - a totally
different proposition to a $2 port on an embedded computer, then the
hybrid is going to be what i said, a manufacturers dream.

 

Yep.

Those who want hybrids say "it's the principle" but they DON'T take into
account the big picture: that those batteries take resources to build
and dispose of, etc.

No, those who say "it's the principle" generally focus on one thing out
of context. Sure, you're sending less money to the middle East (and
everywhere else that supplies oil, including the US). But maybe you're
actually polluting the environment more in the long run, with the
resources required to manufacture and dispose of the batteries.

 

Not to mention an engine that history has shown tends to last a lot
longer than gasoline engines overall.

 

Obvious. A diesel is about 15% more efficient than an Otto. That's
the difference. Although there is no efficiency increase from
eliminating ignition advance, there is still significant efficiency
increase.

Not with regenerative braking.

it's not the mechanical concepts; it's the

 

al, we're talking about different things. i'm taking about business
ethics - you're talking about what amounts to thermodynamics.

how about we agree our subject before we continue this conversation?