Can Anything Stop Toyota?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by elmo, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. elmo

    elmo Guest

    http://yahoo.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_46/b3858001_mz001.htm
    An inside look at how it's reinventing the auto industry.

    Yoi kangae, yoi shina! that's Toyota-speak for "Good thinking means good
    products." The slogan is emblazoned on a giant banner hanging across the
    company's Takaoka assembly plant, an hour outside the city of Nagoya. Plenty
    of good thinking has gone into the high-tech ballet that's performed here 17
    hours a day. Six separate car models -- from the Corolla compact to the new
    youth-oriented Scion xB -- glide along on a single production line in any of
    a half-dozen colors. Overhead, car doors flow by on a conveyor belt that
    descends to floor level and drops off the right door in the correct color
    for each vehicle. This efficiency means Takaoka workers can build a car in
    just 20 hours.

    The combination of speed and flexibility is world class. More important, a
    similar dance is happening at 30 Toyota plants worldwide, with some able to
    make as many as eight different models on the same line. That is leading to
    a monster increase in productivity and market responsiveness -- all part of
    the company's obsession with what President Fujio Cho calls "the criticality
    of speed."

    Remember when Japan was going to take over the world? Corporate America was
    apoplectic at the idea that every Japanese company might be as obsessive,
    productive, and well-managed as Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ). We know what
    happened next: One of the longest crashes in business history revealed most
    of Japan Inc. to be debt-addicted, inefficient, and clueless. Today, 13
    years after the Nikkei peaked, Japan is still struggling to avoid permanent
    decline. World domination? Hardly.

    Except in one corner. In autos, the Japanese rule. And in Japan, one
    company -- Toyota -- combines the size, financial clout, and manufacturing
    excellence needed to dominate the global car industry in a way no company
    ever has. Sure, Toyota, with $146 billion in sales, may not be tops in every
    category. GM is bigger -- for now. Nissan Motor Co. (NSANY ) makes slightly
    more profit per vehicle in North America, and its U.S. plants are more
    efficient. Both Nissan and Honda have flexible assembly lines, too. But no
    car company is as strong as Toyota in so many areas.

    Of course, the carmaker has always moved steadily forward: Its executives
    created the doctrine of kaizen, or continuous improvement. "They find a
    hole, and they plug it," says auto-industry consultant Maryann Keller. "They
    methodically study problems, and they solve them." But in the past few
    years, Toyota has accelerated these gains, raising the bar for the entire
    industry. Consider:

    -- Toyota is closing in on Chrysler to become the third-biggest carmaker in
    the U.S. Its U.S. share, rising steadily, is now above 11%.

    -- At its current rate of expansion, Toyota could pass Ford Motor Co. (F )
    in mid-decade as the world's No. 2 auto maker. The No. 1 spot -- still
    occupied by General Motors Corp. (GM ), with 15% of the global market --
    would be the next target. President Cho's goal is 15% of global sales by
    2010, up from 10% today. "They dominate wherever they go," says Nobuhiko
    Kawamoto, former president of Honda Motor Co. (HMC ). "They try to take over
    everything."

    -- Toyota has broken the Japanese curse of running companies simply for
    sales gains, not profit. Its operating margin of 8%-plus (vs. 2% in 1993)
    now dwarfs those of Detroit's Big Three. Even with the impact of the strong
    yen, estimated 2003 profits of $7.2 billion will be double 1999's level. On
    Nov. 5, the company reported profits of $4.8 billion on sales of $75 billion
    for the six months ended Sept. 30. Results like that have given Toyota a
    market capitalization of $110 billion -- more than that of GM, Ford, and
    DaimlerChrysler (DCX ) combined.

    -- The company has not only rounded out its product line in the U.S., with
    sport-utility vehicles, trucks, and a hit minivan, but it also has seized
    the psychological advantage in the market with the Prius, an eco-friendly
    gasoline-electric car. "This is going to be a real paradigm shift for the
    industry," says board member and top engineer Hiroyuki Watanabe. In October,
    when the second-generation Prius reached U.S. showrooms, dealers got 10,000
    orders before the car was even available.

    -- Toyota has launched a joint program with its suppliers to radically cut
    the number of steps needed to make cars and car parts. In the past year
    alone, the company chopped $2.6 billion out of its $113 billion in
    manufacturing costs without any plant closures or layoffs. Toyota expects to
    cut an additional $2 billion out of its cost base this year.

    -- Toyota is putting the finishing touches on a plan to create an
    integrated, flexible, global manufacturing system. In this new network,
    plants from Indonesia to Argentina will be designed both to customize cars
    for local markets and to shift production to quickly satisfy any surges in
    demand from markets worldwide. By tapping, say, its South African plant to
    meet a need in Europe, Toyota can save itself the $1 billion normally needed
    to build a new factory.

    If Cho gets this transformation right, he'll end up with an automotive
    machine that makes the Americans and Germans quake. Cost-cutting and process
    redesign will chop out billions in expenses. That will keep margins strong
    and free up cash to develop new models and technologies such as the Prius,
    to invest in global manufacturing, and to invade markets such as Europe and
    China. New models and new plants will build share, which will build more
    clout. And if there's a hiccup -- well, there's a cash-and-securities hoard
    of $30 billion. "This is a company that does not fear failure," says Cho.

    Roadblocks?
    Can anything stop Toyota? There are some potential roadblocks. Toyota
    doesn't always get it right: Its early attempts at the youth market,
    minivans, and big pickup trucks all disappointed. It remains dependent on
    the U.S. business for some 70% of earnings. Its Lexus luxury sedans are
    losing ground to BMW, though Lexus' strong SUV sales are keeping the
    division in the game. The average Toyota owner is about 46, a number the
    company must lower or risk going the way of Buick. And most of Toyota's big
    sellers aren't exactly head-turners.

    Meanwhile, Toyota's rivals are hardly sitting still. GM is finishing up a
    $4.3 billion revamp of Cadillac, and a revival is in the works: Overall GM
    quality is on an upswing too. "Toyota is a good competitor, but they're not
    unbeatable," says GM Chairman G. Richard Wagoner Jr. Over at Nissan, CEO
    Carlos Ghosn doubts Toyota's big bet on hybrids will pay off. "There will be
    no revolution," he predicts. And Detroit's Big Three are praying that a
    strong yen will batter Toyota. If the yen sticks at 110 to the dollar over
    the next 12 months, Toyota could see its pretax profits shrink by $900
    million.

    A strengthening yen might have hammered Toyota in the 1980s, and it will
    certainly have an impact next year. But today, three decades after starting
    its global push, Toyota can't be accused of needing a cheap yen to subsidize
    exports. Since starting U.S. production in 1986, Toyota has invested nearly
    $14 billion there. What's more, many of its costs are now set in dollars:
    Last year, Toyota's purchases of parts and materials from 500 North American
    suppliers came to $19 billion -- more than the annual sales of Cisco Systems
    Inc. (CSCO ) or Oracle Corp. (ORCL ). The U.S. investment is an enormous
    natural hedge against the yen. "About 60% of what we sold here, we built
    here," Toyota Chairman Hiroshi Okuda said in a Sept. 10 speech in
    Washington.

    Better for Toyota, those cars are also among the industry's biggest
    money-makers. Take SUVs: Ten years ago, Toyota had a puny 4% share. Today,
    it owns nearly 12% of that high-margin segment with eight models ranging
    from the $19,000 RAV4 to the $65,000 Lexus LX 470 -- and makes as much as
    $10,000 on each high-end model it sells. The company is steadily robbing
    Ford, Chrysler, and GM of their primacy in the cutthroat U.S. SUV market and
    has largely sat out the latest round of rebates: Toyota's average incentive
    per car this fall is just $647, compared with $3,812 at GM and $3,665 at
    Ford, according to market watcher Edmunds.com. This is one war of attrition
    where Detroit is clearly outgunned.

    Toyota's charge into SUVs indicates a new willingness to play tough in the
    U.S., which it considers vital to its drive for a global 15% share. "The
    next era is full-size trucks and luxury, environmental, and youth cars,"
    predicts James E. Press, chief operating officer at Toyota Motor Sales USA
    Inc. Toyota is already intent on boosting its 4.5% market share in pickups,
    the last profit refuge of the Big Three. Toyota is building an $800 million
    plant in San Antonio, Tex., that will allow it to more than double its
    Tundra output, to some 250,000 trucks a year by 2006, with rigs powerful and
    roomy enough to go head to head with Detroit's biggest models.

    Toyota plans to extend its early lead in eco-cars by pushing the Prius and
    adding a hybrid Lexus RX 330 SUV next summer. The Lexus will get as much as
    35 miles per gallon, compared with roughly 21 mpg for a conventional RX 330.
    And Toyota is vigorously attacking the youth market with the $14,500 Scin
    xB compact, which surprised Toyota-bashers with its angular, minimalist
    design. Since the Scion's U.S. launch in California in June, Toyota has sold
    nearly 7,700 of them, 30% better than forecast. Toyota Vice-President James
    Farley says three out of four buyers of the brand had no intention of buying
    a Toyota when they started looking. "That's exactly why we started the
    Scion," he says.

    The Scion is evidence that Toyota's growing cash cushion gives it the means
    to revamp its lackluster designs. When Cho traveled through Germany in 1994,
    he recalls being asked: Why are Toyota cars so poorly styled? Part of the
    problem, says Cho, is that too many Toyotas were designed with Japanese
    consumers in mind and then exported. Some worked; some flopped.

    These days, design teams on the West Coast of the U.S., in southern France,
    and back home compete for projects. That has paid off with models such as
    the Yaris, Toyota's best-seller in Europe, where the company now has a 4.4%
    share, compared with less than 3% a decade ago. The Yaris was designed by a
    Greek, Sotiris Kovos, then imported successfully to Japan because of its
    "European" look. "Toyota has finally recognized that buyers want to feel
    like they have some level of style," says Wesley Brown, a consultant with
    auto researcher Iceology. The redesigned Solara sports coupe is getting high
    grades, too: A V-shape line flowing up from the grille gives it a more
    muscular silhouette, and its interior is 20% roomier than before.

    Toyota Man
    Leading Toyota to this new level of global vigor is Cho. He's Toyota Man
    personified: Self-effacing, ever smiling, but an executive whose radar seems
    to pick up every problem and opportunity. "Cho understands as much as anyone
    I've ever seen what's actually happening on the factory floor," says
    manufacturing consultant Ronald E. Harbour, whose firm's annual report on
    productivity is the industry bible.

    That feel for the factory didn't come naturally. The 66-year-old company
    lifer studied law, not business, at the prestigious University of Tokyo and
    could have easily ended up as a faceless bureaucrat at the Ministry of
    Finance. But Cho learned the car business -- and clearly learned it well --
    at the knee of Taichi Ohno, the creator of the legendary Toyota Production
    System, a series of in-house precepts on efficient manufacturing that
    changed the industry. Ohno, a brilliant but notoriously hot-headed engineer,
    lectured Cho about the need to be flexible and to look forward.

    That advice is something Cho found invaluable when he was tapped to oversee
    the 1988 launch of Toyota's key U.S. plant in Georgetown, Ky., now the
    company's biggest U.S. factory and the maker of the Camry sedan. The
    good-natured and unpretentious Cho regularly worked the plant floor, making
    sure to shake hands with each line worker at Christmas to show his
    appreciation. He spoke at Rotary Club meetings and stopped to make small
    talk with the folks in Georgetown.

    Given Toyota's booming U.S. sales in the late 1990s, few inside the company
    were surprised when Cho won the top job. Yet equally few had any clue that
    the new president was about to unleash so many powerful changes. Like his
    predecessor Okuda, Cho had long been frustrated by Toyota's glacial
    decision-making process and cultural insularity. Those had led to missed
    opportunities, such as when product planners at headquarters in Japan
    resisted calls from their U.S. colleagues to build an eight-cylinder pickup
    truck. Cho is rectifying that deficiency with a vengeance with the San
    Antonio plant.

    Then three years ago, as Ghosn -- "le cost killer" -- was slashing billions
    at rival Nissan and cutting its supplier ranks in half, Cho had a
    revelation: If Nissan could do it, Toyota could do it better. The resulting
    program, called Construction of Cost Competitiveness for the 21st Century,
    or CCC21, taps into the company's strengths across the board to build cars
    more efficiently. It's also turning many operations inside out.

    No Detail Too Small
    Toyota has always valued frugality. It still turns down the heat at
    company-owned employee dormitories during working hours and labels its
    photocopy machines with the cost per copy to discourage overuse. But
    cost-cutting was often a piecemeal affair. With CCC21, Cho set a bold target
    of slashing prices on all key components for new models by 30%, which meant
    working with suppliers and Toyota's own staff to ferret out excess.
    "Previously, we tried to find waste here and there," says Cho. "But now
    there is a new dimension of proposals coming in."

    In implementing CCC21, no detail is too small. For instance, Toyota
    designers took a close look at the grip handles mounted above the door
    inside most cars. By working with suppliers, they managed to cut the number
    of parts in these handles to five from 34, which helped cut procurement
    costs by 40%. As a plus, the change slashed the time needed for installation
    by 75% -- to three seconds. "The pressure is on to cut costs at every
    stage," says Takashi Araki, a project manager at parts maker Aisin Seiki Co.

    Just as Cho believes he can get far more out of suppliers, he thinks Toyota
    can make its workers vastly more productive. This is classic kaizen, but
    these days it has gone into overdrive. In the middle of the Kentucky plant,
    for instance, a Kaizen Team of particularly productive employees works in a
    barracks-like structure. The group's sole job is coming up with ways to save
    time and money. Georgetown employees, for instance, recommended removing the
    radiator support base -- the lower jaw of the car -- until the last stage of
    assembly. That way, workers can step into the engine compartment to install
    parts instead of having to lean over the front end and risk straining their
    backs. "We used to have to duck into the car to install something," explains
    Darryl Ashley, 41, a soft-spoken Kentucky native who joined Toyota nine
    years ago.

    In Cambridge, Ont., Cho is going even further: He's determined to show the
    world that Toyota can meet its own highest standards of excellence anywhere
    in its system. It was once company doctrine that Lexus could only be made in
    Japan. No longer. Production of the RX 330 SUV started in Cambridge on Sept.
    26. If the Canadian hands can deliver the same quality as their Japanese
    counterparts, Toyota will be able to chop shipping costs by shifting Lexus
    production to the market where the bulk of those cars are sold.

    The Japanese bosses put the Canadians through their paces. The 700 workers
    on the RX 330 line trained for 12 weeks, including stints in Japan for 200
    of them. There, the Canadians managed to beat Japanese teams in quality
    assessment on a mock Lexus line. Cambridge has taken Toyota's focus on
    poka-yoke, or foolproofing measures, to another level. The plant has
    introduced "Circle L" stations where workers must double- and triple-check
    parts that customers have complained about -- anything from glove boxes to
    suspension systems. "We know that if we can get this right, we may get to bu
    ild other Lexus models," says Jason Birt, a 28-year-old Lexus line worker.

    The Cambridge workers are aided by a radical piece of manufacturing
    technology being rolled out to Toyota plants worldwide. The system, called
    the Global Body Line, holds vehicle frames in place while they're being
    welded, using just one master brace instead of the dozens of separate braces
    required in a standard factory. No big deal? Perhaps, but the system is half
    as expensive to install. Analysts say it lets Toyota save 75% of the cost of
    refitting a production line to build a different car, and it's key to
    Toyota's ability to make multiple models on a single line. Better yet, the
    brace increases the rigidity of the car early in production, which boosts
    the accuracy of welds and makes for a more stable vehicle. "The end results
    are improved quality, shortened welding lines, reduced capital investment,
    and less time to launch new vehicles," says Atsushi Niimi, president of
    Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America.

    Cho and his managers are not just reengineering how Toyota makes its cars --
    they want to revolutionize how it creates products. With the rise of e-mail
    and teleconferencing, teams of designers, engineers, product planners,
    workers, and suppliers rarely all convened in the same place. Under Cho,
    they're again required to work face to face, in a process Toyota calls
    obeya -- literally, "big room." This cuts the time it takes to get a car
    from the drawing board to the showroom. It took only 19 months to develop
    the 2003 Solara. That's better than 22 months for the latest Sienna minivan,
    and 26 months for the latest Camry -- well below the industry average of
    about three years.

    If all this sounds like Toyota is riding a powerful growth wave, well, it
    is. While Cho is as mild-mannered and modest as they come, the revolution he
    has kicked off is anything but. Toyota is in the midst of a transformative
    makeover -- and if Cho succeeds, the entire global auto industry is in for
    one, too.


    By Brian Bremner and Chester Dawson
    With Kathleen Kerwin in Detroit, Christopher Palmeri in Los Angeles, and
    Paul Magnusson in Washington
     
    elmo, Nov 11, 2003
    #1
  2. elmo

    DrPimpDaddi Guest

    so?


    ....................
    I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.
     
    DrPimpDaddi, Nov 11, 2003
    #2
  3. elmo

    Tegger® Guest

    "elmo" <>, being of unsound mind, did utter in


    Toyota passed Ford in the third quarter of this year. At this time, Toyota
    IS the world's second-largest automaker.

    Paul Brent, writing in Canada's Financial Post:
    "On a worldwide basis, Toyota outsold Ford by 43,000 vehicles in the first
    six months of its fiscal year ended in September, and by 166,000 vehicles
    in the third quarter and could outsell Ford for all of 2003."
     
    Tegger®, Nov 12, 2003
    #3
  4. elmo

    Tegger® Guest

    "elmo" <>, being of unsound mind, did utter in


    Toyota passed Ford in the third quarter of this year. At this time, Toyota
    IS the world's second-largest automaker.

    Paul Brent, writing in Canada's Financial Post:
    "On a worldwide basis, Toyota outsold Ford by 43,000 vehicles in the first
    six months of its fiscal year ended in September, and by 166,000 vehicles
    in the third quarter and could outsell Ford for all of 2003."
     
    Tegger®, Nov 12, 2003
    #4
  5. elmo

    Tom Burns Guest

    Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
    reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.

    This is probably another wakeup call for the Big 3 (okay, 2 1/2). They
    appeared to have gotten the first one, but someone hit the snooze button
    again.
     
    Tom Burns, Nov 12, 2003
    #5
  6. elmo

    Tom Burns Guest

    Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
    reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.

    This is probably another wakeup call for the Big 3 (okay, 2 1/2). They
    appeared to have gotten the first one, but someone hit the snooze button
    again.
     
    Tom Burns, Nov 12, 2003
    #6
  7. elmo

    HarrierAWD Guest

    Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a Fremont, CA
    UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know what happens when GM and
    UAW get together to build a vehicle.
     
    HarrierAWD, Nov 12, 2003
    #7
  8. elmo

    HarrierAWD Guest

    Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a Fremont, CA
    UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know what happens when GM and
    UAW get together to build a vehicle.
     
    HarrierAWD, Nov 12, 2003
    #8
  9. elmo

    DrPimpDaddi Guest

    Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a Fremont, CA
    You mean like Prizm/Corolla?




    ....................
    I do not killfile nor use do-not-call lists.
     
    DrPimpDaddi, Nov 13, 2003
    #9
  10. elmo

    Tegger® Guest

    It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring happened
    to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully thin-sounding hollow
    noise. So I went and tapped it again to hear it once more, then did the
    same thing to the mirror on the '91 Integra. The Integra's mirror housing
    is much thicker.

    I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
    insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
    expensive array of government mandates.

    One easy target for cost-cutting is trim and interiors.
    1) Interiors are not exposed to the weather
    2) Interiors and trim are subject to only the most basic governmental
    regulation (other than air-bags)
    3) Interiors are increasingly important to consumers as the cars themselves
    become so reliable as to become almost appliances
    4) Interiors and trim are cheap and quick ways of altering the look and
    functionality of cars in ways that do not involve government crash-testing,
    emissions certification or other expensive compliance procedures.
     
    Tegger®, Nov 13, 2003
    #10
  11. elmo

    Tegger® Guest

    It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring happened
    to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully thin-sounding hollow
    noise. So I went and tapped it again to hear it once more, then did the
    same thing to the mirror on the '91 Integra. The Integra's mirror housing
    is much thicker.

    I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
    insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
    expensive array of government mandates.

    One easy target for cost-cutting is trim and interiors.
    1) Interiors are not exposed to the weather
    2) Interiors and trim are subject to only the most basic governmental
    regulation (other than air-bags)
    3) Interiors are increasingly important to consumers as the cars themselves
    become so reliable as to become almost appliances
    4) Interiors and trim are cheap and quick ways of altering the look and
    functionality of cars in ways that do not involve government crash-testing,
    emissions certification or other expensive compliance procedures.
     
    Tegger®, Nov 13, 2003
    #11
  12. elmo

    Tom Burns Guest

    Exactly.

    I'm not trying to slag NA automakers, but I think the quality issue has
    been pretty well established. I personally cannot think of a NA car that
    I would want to own, but I did test drive the Lincoln LS or whatever -
    the one that they claim is competition for a 5 Series. It might be if
    your only criteria is price. They also make a big deal about one or two
    specs that are "better" than the 5er, but drive both cars and you'll
    have no problem deciding which is better.
     
    Tom Burns, Nov 13, 2003
    #12
  13. elmo

    Tom Burns Guest

    Exactly.

    I'm not trying to slag NA automakers, but I think the quality issue has
    been pretty well established. I personally cannot think of a NA car that
    I would want to own, but I did test drive the Lincoln LS or whatever -
    the one that they claim is competition for a 5 Series. It might be if
    your only criteria is price. They also make a big deal about one or two
    specs that are "better" than the 5er, but drive both cars and you'll
    have no problem deciding which is better.
     
    Tom Burns, Nov 13, 2003
    #13
  14. elmo

    Philip® Guest

    In
    What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
    bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.

    I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
    285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
    transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
    Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
    impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
    also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
    wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
    miles on the car in 14½ months.

    Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
    trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
    a designer.
     
    Philip®, Nov 13, 2003
    #14
  15. elmo

    Philip® Guest

    In
    What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
    bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.

    I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
    285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
    transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
    Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
    impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
    also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
    wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
    miles on the car in 14½ months.

    Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
    trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
    a designer.
     
    Philip®, Nov 13, 2003
    #15
  16. elmo

    MDT Tech® Guest


    And it appears they dont mind paying for it either, they just want it,
    even if it cost a little more in the beginning.

    --








    SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
    conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
    re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
    said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

    The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
    grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
    wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
    governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
    vote for President Bush in 2004."
     
    MDT Tech®, Nov 13, 2003
    #16
  17. elmo

    MDT Tech® Guest


    And it appears they dont mind paying for it either, they just want it,
    even if it cost a little more in the beginning.

    --








    SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
    conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
    re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
    said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

    The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
    grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
    wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
    governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
    vote for President Bush in 2004."
     
    MDT Tech®, Nov 13, 2003
    #17
  18. elmo

    MDT Tech® Guest


    Not so, quality is what they are know for and its what is driving it to
    the #2 spot. Its actually a trademark almost, Toyotas are know the world
    over as being reliable.


    --








    SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
    conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
    re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
    said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

    The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
    grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
    wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
    governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
    vote for President Bush in 2004."
     
    MDT Tech®, Nov 13, 2003
    #18
  19. elmo

    MDT Tech® Guest


    Not so, quality is what they are know for and its what is driving it to
    the #2 spot. Its actually a trademark almost, Toyotas are know the world
    over as being reliable.


    --








    SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
    conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
    re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
    said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

    The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
    grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
    wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
    governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
    vote for President Bush in 2004."
     
    MDT Tech®, Nov 13, 2003
    #19
  20. elmo

    MDT Tech® Guest

    But TeGG, one has to ask, did the mirror really need to be that think in
    the first place? Its not liek you'd want to hook a tow strap to it or
    something/ ;-)

    --








    SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
    conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
    re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
    said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

    The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
    grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
    wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
    governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
    vote for President Bush in 2004."
     
    MDT Tech®, Nov 13, 2003
    #20
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