buying recommendation 94 Accord LX Wagon

I recently saw a 1994 Accord LX Wagon for sale by a private party with
a 106k miles on it. Asking price was $3900. It looks very clean.

I am looking for a car that can last a year without any major repairs.

I was wondering if anyone has any comments on whether or not it is a
good idea to buy a 94 Accord with this many miles on it?

How many miles can a 94 Accord go before it needs a major repairs?

Thanks in advance.

 

106k miles is typically mid-life for a c. 1990s Honda
//assuming// it's been maintained.

Seems like this newsgroup's most frequently reported used
car major problem is serious cooling system leak. The
sellers sell them knowing this is a problem but mask it, and
unload it to unsavvy buyers. Drive the car for at least a
half hour locally; maybe 15 minutes on the highway. Check
the coolant reservoir level at the beginning, mid-way
through and at the end.

Obtain maintenance records if at all possible. When was this
car's timing belt last changed?

Consider paying an import shop mechanic to do a check of the
car. S/he should look at the brakes, cooling system, tranny,
etc., catching things you might easily miss. It's $50 or so
well spent.

edmunds.com has a used car appraiser (by mileage, general
condition, geographic location, dealer price, private party
price, etc.) that might be helpful in pricing.

 

Thanks for the information Elle.

The person selling the car says that she does not know if the timing
belt has been changed or not. Apparently, the car belonged to her
mother who is now elderly and has stopped driving. Besides regular oil
changes, she does not remember her mother doing any service on the car
so she tends to think that the timing belt has not been changed.

I asked for maintenance records, but she said that except for some
receipts for tires that were put on not long ago, there were no
maintenance records for the car.

At what mileage is the timing belt supposed to be changed? If it has
not been changed, can it be changed now in order to extend the life of
the car? Without any service records, can the shop mechanic tell
whether or not it has been changed?

One thing the owner did say is that the "boots" may need to be
replaced. She said her mechanic told her it would cost $200 to do.
She said she would be willing to deduct the repair cost from the sales
price.

I asked about the coolant situation. She said there were no leaks that
she knew of, but I will try to take it for a 30 min ride as you advise
to make sure.

I understand an inspection from a mechanic is important. My friend
recommended a mechanic, but I don't know if he specializes in imports.
Is it absolutely necessary to have it checked by an import shop
mechanic?

 

I'd take a VERY close look at the coolant/radiator situation. If it has
been neglected, RUN from that car. Take it to someone who has seen
damage from dead coolant and trust their information.
Car like that in good condition around here is very desirable. Figure
at least $500 for timing and countershaft and accessory belts, new water
pump and coolant change. Get new oil seals on the front of the engine
too. Look at the fuel lines and power steering lines and gas tank for rust.
Good Luck, and keep in touch. bob

 

For the 94 Accord, for "normal driving," the timing belt
should be replaced every 90k miles or six years, whichever
comes first. For "severe driving," the belt is supposed to
be changed every 60k miles, period. "Severe driving"
includes driving in dusty conditions; lots of short distance
driving; driving in extreme cold; and the like.

Autozone.com has a free online repair manual for this
Accord. For the full maintenance schedule ( = frequency of
replacing various basic things), see
http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0c/f0/9c/0900823d800cf09c.jsp

Absolutely. The only concern by not replacing it is that it
could break at any time. Timing belts not changed at the
Honda specified interval do break.

If the timing belt breaks, the engine repairs may run into
the thousands of dollars.

Some clues that it has been changed may be evident, but, no,
not really.

She most likely means CV boots. One can look under the car
where the axle joins the wheel and see these roughly 1-inch
to 3-inch normally sturdy looking rubber cones. If they have
tears, they need to be replaced immediately, lest dirt and
water ingress into the CV joint, leading to a much more
expensive repair. It's not an unusual repair. Happens maybe
every 8 years or so, depending on where and I suppose how
one drives.

Look for the coolant reservoir, and check its level, too. If
you're not sure where it is, ask. Or, assuming you know
where the radiator is (at the front, under the hood), follow
the small (around 3/8-inch diameter) rubber hose attaching
to the radiator fill neck (just under the radiator cap) to
the reservoir bottle. It has a lid on it through which one
may add more coolant.

No, it's not. You might want to start a relationship with an
import shop, though, especially since you know about the CV
boots. Maybe call around and see how much they want in your
area to replace them with new, genuine Honda ones. Call the
local Honda dealer service department, too, for an estimate.
Ask all also how much to do a timing belt, and what all that
would include. It should include a new water pump, new shaft
oil seals (like Bob said), among other things, too.

Do not buy aftermarket parts for the CV boots. Buy only
genuine Honda parts. If you wish, you can buy them online at
a great price and take them to the shop for them to use.

You might want to get the Edmunds.com used car appraiser
price, then deduct the roughly $500 (like NE Bob estimated)
for the timing belt and X dollars, depending on what local
import shops say, for the boots.

I agree with all else NE Ohio Bob says, too: Look for rust,
etc.

Any doubts or concerns, feel free to ask here. Plenty of
others with good experience may chime in, so keep checking
back. Make a list of things you want to check up close, then
follow up.

 

Thank you very much Bob and Elle.

I will make a checklist of the points you mentioned and try to find an
import shop mechanic for quotes on the repairs.

I will post back as soon with what I find out.

 

I learned from a CarFax history report that the 94 Accord Wagon had
been serviced several times at a local Honda Dealership. I called the
dealership and spoke with the mechanic. He was able to look up the car
in their system and learned that it had been serviced three times, but
they only had record of one problem. For that situation, he said the
car was taken in for service because the ABS warning light. I am not
quite sure what they did, but apparently, he said something like they
turned off the computer and restarted it, and the ABS warning light did
not come back on. Since it did not come back on, it appears it was not
a problem. This service was recorded in 2001. He did say that if
there was a problem with the ABS it would cost $600 to replace.

He had no record of the timing chain being replaced on the car. He
said it would cost $800 to replace the timing chain, water pump and
related items. He also said it would cost $175 to replace the CV boot
on one axle.

I talked to the seller and they said the Credit Union they belong to
quoted the sales price of the car at $4100. Edmunds lists the Private
Party TMV at $3697. NADA lists it at $3975.

To compensate for the CV boots replacement, she said she already
lowered the price for the car to $3900. The seller asked her mechanic
about the timing chain replacement and was advised that it may or may
not be changed. She sounds reluctant to lower the price to compensate
for the timing chain replacement. I told her about the Edmunds TMV but
the seller sounds she will only go with what her Credit Union told her
for car value.

I was going to take it for a test drive tomorrow and if that goes ok,
an inspection.

The Honda Dealership said they would inspect the car for $80. A couple
of friends recommended local mechanics, I am not sure whether they are
experienced in Imports though.

I thought it would be best to take the car to the Honda Dealership for
the inspection though. Am I right?

I will call the other mechanics to get repair quotes for the timing
chain and CV Boots also.

Elle mentioned that the CV boots require Genuine Honda Parts. Do all
shop mechanics have access to them?

Thanks again.

 

Sounds like the usual dealer prices. In other words, a bit
high, but the service should be high quality.

I would print these out and offer to show them to the
seller.

She does not have to come down in price. But you're being
reasonable. It's worth a try to bring her down, IMO.

It's a belt, not a chain.

Only much newer Hondas have the chain.

I suggest you print out the official Honda maintenance
schedule cited before and show her that the belt is supposed
to be changed every 90k miles/6 years. If it hasn't been
changed, it could break at any moment, quite likely causing
catastrophic and expensive damage. Also google for {"timing
belt" break interference} and print out the most reputable
web sites that speak to this.

If she's never changed the belt before, she's been negligent
in her maintenance. She, not you, should have to pay for
this.

Forgot to mention: On the test drive, listen for clicking
coming from the front axles. This is a symptom of a failed
CV joint. In other words, the boots might have let enough
crud in that the whole joint is failing. That's a lot more
expensive than just the boot.

Here are more suggestions on checking this:
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/faq_ii.html#CVjoints

Eighty dollars is a fair price, and I agree the Honda
dealership will likely be more savvy about what to check.

Not necessarily. What you can do is use an independent shop,
but tell them you want to use genuine Honda parts and will
provide them. Order the parts online from, say,

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1994&catcgry3=WGN+LX&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DRIVESHAFT

If the seller won't come down in price, I guess you have to
weigh how soon you need the car and the availability of
other ones like it in your area.

If she won't come down for the timing belt, I think I'd
start checking around now, before paying $80 for the
inspection.

Way to be thorough!

 

I will be sure to listen carefully for any clicking on the front axle
and look over the post you advised.

I really like the car. If the coolent, CV joint and vehicle inspection
check out ok, I figured offering 3200 to 3400 for the car and then
continue to look for other options while the seller considers.

Will post back with the results.

I appreciate your taking the time to respond so quickly and thanks for
the valuable information.

 

I just found another vehicle for sale by a car dealer. A 1998 Ford
Escort with 47,800 miles. The dealer wants $5000 for it. Except for a
small ding in the door, it looks to be in excellent condition. I took
it for a test drive and it seems pretty good.

For the 98 Escort, I found the following values:
Edmunds lists the car dealer retail value at $4,006
Nada Guides lists the car value at Average Retail at $4,150 and High
Retail at $4750
Kelly Blue Book suggested retail value is $4,185

The dealer says he will give me a 60 day warranty.

I was wondering which is the better car value, a 94 Accord with 106k
for $3900 (total would be around $4600 when adding the $700 or so for
timing belt, CV boots to the purchase price) or the 98 Escort with 47k
for $5000.

I did not take the Honda for test drive yet, but hope to do so
tomorrow.

 

IF the car has been reasonably maintained, with regular oil/fluid
changes changes being most important, 100k is no big deal for an Accord.

A whole bunch.

It just so happens that I bought a '92 Wagon last February. It had 140K
well maintained miles. Here's a list of the car's ailments. Most
problems are 'normal' and can be probably be expected, to one degree or
another, with any 100K+ car.

Suspension is sloppy. The car feels vague in crosswinds and meanders
slightly when braking. With all the joints/bushings to check/replace,
this will be a long term DIY project.

The right side drive axle (CV joint) is starting to make noise and will
need replacing soon. The rubber boot is intact, so I'm not sure why
it's having problems. I suspect the joints eventually wear out if the
grease isn't cleaned out and repacked every few years.

Prior owner recently changed the timing belt. This is an absolute must
by 100K. (I think 90K is the service limit.) Bad sh*t will happen if
the belt breaks.

Speaker are shot.

AC worked when I bought it, but has a hidden slow leak. In Tucson, in
June, this is a BAD THING!

The only 'problem' is a sporadic check engine light and occasional
off-idle stumble. The engine code indicates an EGR problem. (This is
hardly 'normal wear,' but is not 100% unexpected either.) I pulled the
access plugs and checked/cleaned the ports to no avail. They were
grungy but still flowing well enough.) It must be the valve or control
solenoid.


On the positive side.

The engine burns only half a quart per 5K miles. After 5.5K miles, the
oil (M1) is finally getting somewhat dark. Clearly, the rings (and
hopefully, the rest of the engine core!) are in great shape. You'll
hear lots of anecdotal reports of 200K Honda engines. They are very
well built and can go forever if you keep the oil clean and fresh.

32~33MPG commute (driving like a granny, anticipating those #$@# red
lights), 36+ freeway if I cruise around along at ~60MPH (two lane state
highways and the like), back to ~31 on the superslab at 70+.

Solid body/interior construction. No rattling doors, broken handles,
disintegrating console knobs, or the like.

Transmission feels great; smooth, sure shits with no hang-ups or synchro
issues. (Filling it with Honda's MTF vastly improved the feel and
shifting ease.)


Overall: I paid 3000 (a little too much?) and am content with what I got.

3900 is probably a few hundred too much, unless it's in superb running
order.

-Greg

 

How long will you be keeping the car?

For all my opinion is worth (Heh - not much!!), I'd take the Honda as a
long term ride. As with 'dog years' the Ford will age more quickly than
the Honda and will have caught and passed it after another 50K or so.
(150K Honda is arguably a better car than a 100K Escort.) If the seller
will lower the price, I'd take the Whale for sure.

If this is an interim car......Idunnow. Too close to call.

Take your time and get as complete an impression as possible.


-Greg

 

Thank you for your information Greg. Very interesting.

I look forward to test driving the Honda to see how it feels. Will
post back.

 

------------------------------------------

Yep . . . . We've been increasing our dietary fibre and everything works
better at our house too, except there's less reading time in the day
now.

Stay loose,

'Curly'

 

To help with this decision, I suggest going to the April
issue of "Consumer Reports." This is its annual car buying
issue. Turn to the matrices indicating reliability of
different cars' sub-systems, based on thousands (a couple
hundred thousand, IIRC) of readers' input. Look up the
matrix for the Ford Escort, then the matrix for the Accord.

 

I just read an interesting article on Consumer Reports on reliability
as cars get older.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/reliability/reliability-trends-406/overview/index.htm

According to this article, it seems that the 12 year old Honda will
cause me less trouble than a 8 year old Ford.

The trends in reliability on Consumer Reports only go back as far a
1998 so I could not check the 94 Accord. From 98 till 2005, the Accord
consistenlty gets "Much Better than Average" rating for Used Car
verdict. The Used Car Verdict was Average for the 98 Escort.

 

Yet my impression is that properly maintained American cars
are lasting about as long as Japanese makes these days.

Overall, I still think a person is better off with a Honda
or Toyota, but I must admit I know people swearing by their
15 year old American makes.

To be very exacting, you could see if the library has the
April 2002 (or so) car buying issue. This might have the 94
Accord.

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Whoopsie!)
Dang 'f' key must be a bit sticky.

If, as I age, I start to feel the needs for 'sureness,' I'll just chug a
teaspoon or two of MTF!

<Still LOLOLOLOL.............Hehehehehehhehehe!>

-Greg

 

Just went for a test drive on the 94 Accord.

Before starting the car, I checked the coolant reservoir and it was a
little low. The car owner did not have any antifreeze to mix in so he
got some distilled water and filled the reservoir to the minimum level.
He did not want to add any more because he said he should add 50/50
mix of antifreeze and water to the reservoir and we did not have
antifreeze with us.

After a good 25 minute drive (15 minutes of that on the expressway) we
stopped and turned off engine and checked reservoir again. It looked
like it was still at the minimum level. It looked like there was no
change at all in the level. The temperature gauge did not indicate any
problem. Would this mean the coolant situation is fine?

I did a couple of 360 degrees slow turns in the parking lot and there
was no sound coming from the CV joints.

The car seemed to drive really well. I really felt the bumps in the
road so maybe I can ask the mechanic to check the suspension.

I listened carefully for any brake noise but heard none. The car
accelerated fine and seemed to have enough power.

We climbed a very steep hill on a highway in our area going 55mph. The
car dropped into a lower gear during our drive up the hill and the
downshift seemed to be a little rough, but nothing that really alarmed
me.

The car pulls a little to the right when I was on the expressway. The
steering wheel seems to be a little cockeyed to the right. Is that a
big problem?

The A/C worked really well. Cruise and all the power options worked
well too. Back two doors were a little stiff when opening and it
looked like there was some rust on the hinges. Apparently, the back
doors were seldom opened. I did not notice any rust on body of car.

Apparently the drivers side seatbelt got closed into the door several
times so there is some minor damage on the inside of the drivers side
door. It seems the seatbelt won't retract powerfully when released,
but with a quick pull, retracts nearly all the way.

I think this 94 Accord wagon would be better for my wife and daughter
than the 98 Escort because of the size.

I would like to get it inspected and hopefully get the buyer to go drop
their price a little to compensate for the timing belt change I would
need to do.

I will try to go for the inspection on Monday.

 

Had the car been driven in the last hour or so before the
above check?

That's reasonable.

It should rise a little. Then again, all might be fine.

Look especially at control arm bushings and the coil
springs.

Chances are they are pretty raggedy, but I suspect the
Edmunds etc. prices on 94 Accords take this into account.

May need some suspension renovation, followed by an
alignment. Or it may just need, say, something like the tire
pressure adjusted.

Suspension renovation on these older cars is expensive.
$1000 or so, easily, I bet.

But unless something's obviously broken (like a ball joint
or coil spring) I don't think that's something you can
negotiate. It's about ride comfort.

At most, you could subtract $100 from your offer for an
alignment.

Nice update.