Accord Replacement Keys

We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a security
safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my amusement,
I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen. To my
surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
(manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
that money if the key would still work to steal the car?

 

The $100 got you a new key with the ignition security code copied over
from your remaining factory key, and the service guys added that new
key's remote transmitter to your car's remote unlock system. (In a
Honda, for remote lock/unlock you program the car's computer to
recognize the remote transmitter code; it can keep track of up to 4
remote transmitters that way.)

The charges break down like this:

* $X for the key itself
* $Y to copy your existing key's ignition security code over to the new
key
* $Z to have your remote unlock system recognize the transmitter code on
the new key

They did NOT reprogram your car's computer (and keys) with a new
ignition security code. That gets to be very expensive.

For the record: you can buy an appropriate remote transmitter off of
Ebay or keylessride.com and program it to your remote unlock system
yourself. But you asked them to do it, so they charged you $Z for that.

Back in 2002 when I bought a new Honda van, I wanted a couple more keys
made. It was $25 each for the key, cutting it, and copying the ignition
security code over. Nowadays it's probably $50, and another $50 for the
10 second dance of mating up the transmitter to the remote unlock system.

 

They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They
changed the remote program for both keys. The service advisor told me
they had to reprogram all the keys and the car. This is evidenced by
the fact that the old (previously lost) key will no longer unlock
remotely. Nothing works anymore on the remote buttons. They told me
at the time that if I ever found the lost key, I might as well throw
it away as it would be useless. Obviously not.

Something I haven't figured out yet is why, if they only copied the
ignition security and remote codes to the new key, did I get charged
for programming 3 keys, which included the valet key without any
remote buttons? It may be time to go back and have a talk with my
Honda dealer.

 

We're talking two different things here:

1) the ignition security code (lets you start the car)

2) the remote lock/unlock system

They *must* copy the ignition security code from your old key to the new
key. If you lose both your keys, then they must perform the costly
operation (much more than $100) of putting an all-new ignition security
code into the computer AND adding that to your keys.

The remote lock/unlock system, however, is far simpler. Each key has a
unique transmitter identity; it's a simple 10 second procedure (per key)
to match up the key to the lock/unlock receiver system inside the car.
You can do that.

If you needed a new key, it by definition must match up with the
ignition security system. But because your key also contains the remote
lock/unlock transmitter, that part of replacing your key also needed to
be done.

One key, but that key serves two purposes, therefore it needed two
things done to fully match it with the car.

Not for $100 they didn't. If you went in with one key and came out with
two, and both keys started the car and locked/unlocked the doors, and
all you paid was $100, they did not "reprogram all the keys and the car".

The fact that your lost key continued to start the car is the final
proof. They never touched the ignition security code itself, other than
copying it from your existing key into the new key. That's standard
procedure. Also standard procedure is the 10 second mating of the new
remote transmitter to the car.

Not at all. I have four remotes programmed to my van, and sometimes one
of those will lose its "mind"--that is, the receiver in the car loses
its knowledge of the remote in question. I have to perform the 10
second procedure for that remote again. The procedure doesn't touch the
other keys.

It's not impossible that they cleared the remote lock/unlock system and
started it from scratch, but that would have been another 10 second
procedure by itself. The remote lock/unlock system and programming a
new key transmitter for it is something you could have Googled the
instructions for and done yourself. Probably would have saved you $50.

The fact that your lost key still starts the car is proof that they
didn't "reprogram all the keys and the car" with regard to the ignition
security system. That's very costly to do.

That's an excellent question to ask your service manager.

Please note: they did not COPY the remote lock/unlock code to the new
key. The copying of codes relates ONLY to the ignition security system.
The lock/unlock system is separate and operates differently. The system
in the car can recognize up to four transmitters, and there's a specific
10 second sequence to go through that requires that the new key be
physically present at the car. This process does not alter the code in
the transmitter itself; the transmitter already has a unique code in it
from the factory. This procedure merely establishes a link between that
transmitter and the car's lock/unlock computer. The link is verified by
the fact that the key is physically at the car and that the key can
physically operate the door lock. Once that dance is completed, the
car's computer is convinced that this particular key is supposed to
operate this particular car, and the computer remembers that for remote
operations.

It's only a 10 second dance.

Like I said, the $100 paid for $50 of key plus ignition security code
transfer, and $50 worth of matching the new transmitter in the new key
to the car's remote lock/unlock system.

The reason you're here asking all of this is because you don't know how
the systems work, and you're looking for people who do know. You've
found one--but you're resisting believing that person.

You could believe a guy who spent a half hour of his life going over all
of this FOR FREE with a COMPLETE STRANGER, or you can believe the
dealership service department who just printed out a load of crap for
you to get your hundred bucks.

The key points (pun intended) to consider are these:

1) you were charged only $100, which does not in any way, shape, or form
pay for anything regarding the ignition security code inside the car
itself

2) your lost key still starts the car

It can't be any plainer to someone like me who knows how this works.
You may choose not to believe me; that's your business.

I'd say so.

 

The dealer is supposed to clear the immobilizer memory of the transponder
codes for the lost key. This is done through the same PGM Tester menu used
to add new keys. The mechanic that did the work just forgot to do that.

 

First, I want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.
I have no problem with your explanation of the ignition code
programming. Let's forget about that. My real problem is with the
keyless entry system.

I have spent a great deal of time searching for information regarding
remote control programming for the 2003 Honda Accord EX. So far I
have found zip. There are lots of procedures for other Hondas and
earlier Hondas, but nothing regarding 7th generation Accords. All of
the procedures I have found have the same procedure (the 'dance' as
you call it.) So, taking your advice, I attempted to program my
remotes using the procedure from these other Hondas. So far, I have
tried it 4 times, and there is absolutely no response from the car.

I did see in the Honda Security Systems Owner's Manual printed in 2002
that it shows, "Remote Control Code Programming (Only vehicles not
equipped with Standard Keyless Entry System." I don't know how to
interpret that. I would say that my Accord came equipped with a
standard keyless entry system, but it may mean something else. All I
know is that the programming instructions in these early manuals does
not work in my car.

Something else I ran across was something in my 2003 Owner's Manual
that states, "If you lose a transmitter, you will need to have the
replacement programmed to your car's system by your Honda dealer. Any
other transmitters you have will also need to be reprogrammed." This
seems to contradict what you told me earlier.

What would be most helpful to me now would be to point me to a site
that has remote entry progamming instructions for a 7th generation
Accord EX.

 

Thanks Tegger. That clears up one mystery. Can you point me to the
remote key entry system programming instructions for a 2003 Accord EX?
I have tried the procedure for earlier Hondas without success.

 

Try this:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/98-011.pdf

Your car is covered on page 9.

 

Well, I explained how that works.

The dance may be different, but there's still a dance.

The last sentence says that maybe they did it differently with the 03
Accord (but I seriously doubt it). But the rest of it is the same as
they've always said. In other words, we're not going to put into any
customer documentation how to do this procedure.

In a Honda system, you don't "reprogram the transmitters". I think
you're seeing sloppy documentation. Worst case, they're talking about
clearing the car's computer of all transmitter codes, and doing the
dance again for the keys you do have. This would "lock out" the lost
key, right?

And this is what may have happened in your case. A quick hit on the
service computer, and do the dance for the two remaining keys. There's
your $50.

 

Thanks very much.

 

Technically you would be correct in that the transmitters themselves
are not reprogrammed, only the car's receiver is learning the codes
from the three transmitters. When they say, "programmed transmitters"
I'm sure they mean transmitters that have been programmed into the
receiver.

Now that I have the actual procedure for the 2003 Accord, I can see
why all transmitters have to be "reprogrammed." Entering the
programming mode cancels all learned transmitter codes, so none of the
previously programmed transmitters will work. You must reprogram all
of the transmitters once you are in the programming mode. I'm quoting
from the Honda Service Bulletin. Also, there is a limit of three
transmitters because the transmitter codes are stored in a
stacking-type memory. If a fourth transmitter code is programmed,
the code for the first transmitter is erased.

My last problem was cockpit error. When I followed the programming
procedure, when it said to turn on the ignition, I was only turning
the key to I and not II. Once I realized what I was doing wrong, all
three transmitters were able to submit their code to the receiver. I
now have three mated keys.

Thanks for pointing out the fact that the codes can be owner
programmed. I don't know if the $42 the dealer charged for mating the
new key to the ignition was too much or not, but it's water under the
bridge now. I'm happy.

 

For some Honda vehicles (like the 2005 Pilot I have), you can program the
remote door lock/unlock buttons yourself, but if you want to be able to start
the vehicle, you need the Honda equipment to program the car computer to
accept the key's chip.

I had to get another key for my Pilot because my wife lost hers, and it cost
me $150 to get a new key and have the Pilot reprogrammed for it. I checked
3 or 4 dealers in my area, and they all charged the same for doing that.
If I remember correctly, the key was $50, the programming was $90, plus tax.

 

In my case, the dealer charged me $57.62 for the new key, and $42
labor to match it to the car (plus tax.) Then she found the key.

 

Well of course she found it after you got the new key! My wife hasn't found
hers though...

 

According to the Service Bulletin 98-011, February 20 2004, Page 9:
http://driveaccord.net/PDF/remote%20reprogram%2098-011.pdf
"The system accepts up to *three* transmitters. The
transmitter codes are stored in a stacking-type
memory. If a fourth transmitter code is programmed,
the code for the first transmitter is erased."

Are you 100% sure the original honda keys have "writable" chip for
the ignition security system? I am not sure, but I have read
somewhere, that the rf-id chips in honda keys are "read-only" type,
so you need to teach the car to recognize new key...
Only aftermarket, non-honda keys have this chip writable for the purpose
of the store/locksmith being able to copy chip without messing with the car.

I went to keylessride.com and looked up 2004 accord key+remote
for my car. They have "combo" key for about $42 but they send
you to the dealer for cutting the key AND FOR TRANSPONDER CHIP
PROGRAMMING, which apparently you cannot do yourself...
They will send you programming instructions for the remote unlock
transmitter (probably an text taken from the bulletin above) but with
the ignition transponder (also called rf-id chip or immobiliser tag)
ou are out of luck and on the mercy of your dealer...

So at keylessride.com you pay $42 for the blank key $6 for shipping
and after paying $50 to the dealer for cutting this blank and
putting the new immobilizer tag into your car memory you are parted
with your $100. Where is the deal here?