ABS brakes

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jim Hernandez
  • Start date Start date
J

Jim Hernandez

Does anyone know if the ABS brakes and the clutch have any interaction at
all. Me and my friend have a long standing argument about this. He believes
that if the clutch is engaged, the ABS does not work. I feel that ABS and
clutch have no designed interactivity. Honda engineers are too chickenshit
to give me an answer. They probably feel I am working on a lawsuit or
something.
 
I have a 2003 Accord 5-speed and I can assure you that the ABS works when
the clutch is fully engaged. The big question for you friend would be, why
wouldn't ABS work when the clutch is engaged? If anything, this is when
you'd need ABS the most since you no longer have any engine braking helping
to slow you down so the breaks have to do more work, increasing the chance
of locking the wheels.
 
Jim said:
Does anyone know if the ABS brakes and the clutch have any interaction at
all. Me and my friend have a long standing argument about this. He believes
that if the clutch is engaged, the ABS does not work. I feel that ABS and
clutch have no designed interactivity. Honda engineers are too chickenshit
to give me an answer. They probably feel I am working on a lawsuit or
something.
Click to expand...

---------

Jim,

I agree with you, if it's any consolation.

The ABS only cares about the speed that the wheels are turning. Id
doesn't care if the engine is doing the pushing, or some of the
braking.... But if your foot is touching the brake pedal, the wheels
better all be spinning at the same speed or the ABS will start
activating.

'Curly'
-----------------
 
"Jim Hernandez" said:
Does anyone know if the ABS brakes and the clutch have any interaction at
all. Me and my friend have a long standing argument about this. He believes
that if the clutch is engaged, the ABS does not work. I feel that ABS and
clutch have no designed interactivity. Honda engineers are too chickenshit
to give me an answer. They probably feel I am working on a lawsuit or
something.
Click to expand...

I agree with the intelligent poster that told you that the ABS system
works if the clutch is engaged and also works when the clutch is NOT
engaged. In other words, there is NO interaction between the clutch and
ABS system.
 
Does anyone know if the ABS brakes and the clutch have any interaction
at all. Me and my friend have a long standing argument about this. He
believes that if the clutch is engaged, the ABS does not work. I feel
that ABS and clutch have no designed interactivity. Honda engineers
are too chickenshit to give me an answer. They probably feel I am
working on a lawsuit or something.
Click to expand...

The only difference I can think of is that when the clutch is engaged,
engine RPM drops and there is less vacuum to the brakes, therefore less
braking force. Normally this is not noticable but the brake pedal drops a
little, which may make you think ABS less effective.
 
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Ed said:
The only difference I can think of is that when the clutch is engaged,
engine RPM drops and there is less vacuum to the brakes, therefore less
braking force. Normally this is not noticable but the brake pedal drops a
little, which may make you think ABS less effective.
Click to expand...

While that doesn't seem like a bad answer, I believe an engine at idle is
still providing enough vacuum to allow the booster to operate sufficiently.
They only thing I can come up with is that by keeping the engine engaged,
you might have better chance of getting the ABS working from a four wheel
slide. Basically all I know is that a four wheel slide defeats the ABS
system since the speed sensor (I am assuming) would be sending the same kind
of signal as if one were at a complete stop. But who knows? I guess I'll
drop a lint to Pat Goss or The Tappet Brothers.



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Well, the issue was that he was told this by the dealer a few years back. To
further complicate things he had a little fender bender on ice and would
rather believe that this clutch issue was the cause rather than simply going
to fast on ice.

When he told about what the dealer said, I found some ice in an empty
parking lot and tested it. ABS worked as expected. Someone suggested testing
it in reverse.. Curiosity abounds, heh. Not my car anyway...

Sean Donaher said:
I have a 2003 Accord 5-speed and I can assure you that the ABS works when
the clutch is fully engaged. The big question for you friend would be, why
wouldn't ABS work when the clutch is engaged? If anything, this is when
you'd need ABS the most since you no longer have any engine braking helping
to slow you down so the breaks have to do more work, increasing the chance
of locking the wheels.
Click to expand...



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Sean Donaher said:
I have a 2003 Accord 5-speed and I can assure you that the ABS works when
the clutch is fully engaged. The big question for you friend would be, why
wouldn't ABS work when the clutch is engaged? If anything, this is when
you'd need ABS the most since you no longer have any engine braking helping
to slow you down so the breaks have to do more work, increasing the chance
of locking the wheels.
Click to expand...

TYou were doing well, until this last statement.

You "lock a wheel" when the retardation force acting to reduce rotation is
greater than the static friction interaction between the tyre and the road.
In other words, it doesn't matter if the braking force is concentrated
entirely at the brakes, or in combonation with engine braking, the same
amount of "total braking effort" at that wheel will casuse the wheel to
lock. Doesn't matter where in the transmission/brakeing system the braking
force is, as it all comes together at the tyre/road interface, and THAT is
where it counts. how can the tyre tell if the braking force comes from the
rotor, or the engine? Bit of common sense there please.
 
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Misti Norton said:
TYou were doing well, until this last statement.

You "lock a wheel" when the retardation force acting to reduce rotation is
greater than the static friction interaction between the tyre and the road.
In other words, it doesn't matter if the braking force is concentrated
entirely at the brakes, or in combonation with engine braking, the same
amount of "total braking effort" at that wheel will casuse the wheel to
lock. Doesn't matter where in the transmission/brakeing system the braking
force is, as it all comes together at the tyre/road interface, and THAT is
where it counts. how can the tyre tell if the braking force comes from the
rotor, or the engine? Bit of common sense there please.
Click to expand...

Granted the road nor the tire (tyre) care when dynamic pull overcomes static
friction, the case is still there of how the ABS manages this breaking
situation. That was my arguement in the first place. However I will add that
if engine braking results in a slide requiring ABS-like properties, KYAGB
(Kiss You Ass Good Bye) since you are going where ever inertia is going to
take you.

To me the difference between clutch engaged and not engaged is this, when
breaking there is a slight input from the engine to contribute in the
"directed" direction. Without the clutch engaged, the engine means weight
only and you are using ABS on a Red Rider Wagon. The difference being that
with the clutch engaged the engine is giving it's input, you have a
direction to tell to the ABS system (ie - that of the direction of the
tires). While engaged, the system will think it's at a stop light while you
might be spinning like a top.



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While that doesn't seem like a bad answer, I believe an engine at idle
is still providing enough vacuum to allow the booster to operate
sufficiently.
Click to expand...

Sufficiently - yes, but noticeably different.
Try this: With the car standing, press the brake pedal. Turn your A/C on,
then turn it off. You will feel the change in the brake pressure as the RPM
goes slightly up and down.



They only thing I can come up with is that by keeping
the engine engaged, you might have better chance of getting the ABS
working from a four wheel slide. Basically all I know is that a four
wheel slide defeats the ABS system since the speed sensor (I am
assuming) would be sending the same kind of signal as if one were at a
complete stop. But who knows? I guess I'll drop a lint to Pat Goss or
The Tappet Brothers.
Click to expand...

The chance of all 4 wheels skidding at the exact same rate and time is
pretty remote. The ABS is smart enough to tell a skid from a harsh braking.
 
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