97 civic rough/no idle, just changed timing belt, 72 trouble code

Discussion in 'Civic' started by ChaoticEntity, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. Hello, I just changed the timing belt of a 97 civic dx hatch, we
    screwed up the timing the first time(crankshaft pully moved) adjusted
    it again and set the line on the pulley to the arrow on the block and
    the up arrow was set for the camshaft at the top. this was double
    checked to make sure it was accurate.

    On reassembly valve clearences were adjusted to factory spec.

    I took a timing light to it and at ~2.5-3k rpm the timing lines up
    with the red mark on the pulley. The gas can be held and it'll keep
    running as long as the rpms are ~2k or higher, any lower and it stalls
    out. Went for a short drive, car is totally gutless till ~5-6k rpm and
    even then it's weak.

    when we got everything back together and started the car the check
    engine light came on, jumped the ecu and got a 72 code (Misfire on
    cylinder #2)

    I'm thinking at this point that I must have made an error when the
    timing belt was put on and the timing is off there. If that's not the
    case then I have no idea why it's idle is so bad.

    I reset the ECU by pulling the battery connectors for a good 10min or
    so, next time it started the 72 code came back shortly.

    Any ideas how to get the car to idle correctly and what might be going
    ChaoticEntity, Sep 10, 2007
  2. ChaoticEntity

    Tegger Guest

    wrote in 57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:

    How far out were they when you started? If they were WAY out, then your
    belt is still on there incorrectly.

    "Red mark"? Is this the middle one of the group of three? Or is it the one
    that's all by itself?
    Tegger, Sep 10, 2007
  3. ChaoticEntity

    Tegger Guest

    I missed something before...

    The timing should be at the middle mark of the three
    at **IDLE** with the Service Check connector shorted.

    At 2500rpm it will be WAY off from ANY of the marks! You've done something
    seriously wrong here.

    Did you have a factory service manual before doing all the work?
    Tegger, Sep 10, 2007
  4. ChaoticEntity

    jim beam Guest

    you need to check it again after the belt has been tensioned - the
    symptoms say you're out.
    timing belt is set wrong. the cam gear is not just "up", but two marks
    must align with the head surface.

    be logical - it worked before the belt change, it doesn't work after.
    cam timing is the most likely error.
    jim beam, Sep 10, 2007
  5. ChaoticEntity

    jim beam Guest

    no kidding. shouldn't have to touch the ignition timing if the belt is
    set right.
    jim beam, Sep 10, 2007
  6. ok, it was disassembled and put back together from the service manual
    step by step. (misunderstood where crank TDC was, stupid mistake)

    I double checked the timing was correct when the belt was put on, that
    is that the cam marks lined up with the block and the crank pulley's
    white TDC mark was lined up with the V notch and the point(it was dead
    on) Then followed the tension procedure and after everything was
    tightened the marks were checked again, this time they were near
    perfect(the cam was perfect, the crank TDC mark was ~1mm from the
    point(IE well within 2deg)

    Now that it has been reassembled the timing is dead on that middle
    (red) mark @ ~750-800rpm. This is a canadian model D16y7 so the idle
    should be 750+-

    Still runs lousy, no power, idles rough then dies. If you put it in
    gear or anything it just wants to die on you. has almost no power till
    ~3-4k rpm and even after that it's far less than normal...

    any ideas?
    ChaoticEntity, Sep 11, 2007
  7. ChaoticEntity

    jim beam Guest

    i still say cam timing's off. it's easy to set the cam and the crank so
    they align, but have the belt one tooth out simply by having the belt
    slack. you need to assemble, tension, then re-check the mechanical
    timing /afterwards/. carefully rotate the motor three times, then
    slowly bring the crank timing point up to tdc keeping the belt under
    tension. only then can you be 100% certain that cam timing is correct.

    and to emphasize, ignition timing is a different matter entirely to cam
    timing - ignition can look perfect with the cam 19 degrees out. the
    gotcha check for this is the position of the distributor - it should be
    roughly in the middle of the rotation slots. if the cam is out, it'll
    be towards one end.

    finally, use the right book - some are crap. helminc.com is the source
    for factory honda service manuals - easily the best investment you'll
    ever make in your honda if you do your own maintenance.
    jim beam, Sep 11, 2007
  8. followed step by step from the honda service manual, well then
    tomorrow I'll rotate the crank pulley to TDC, take the valve cover off
    and check the marks on the camgear just to triple check the mechanical

    Any ideas what it might be if it's not the timing? vacuum leak?
    ChaoticEntity, Sep 11, 2007
  9. ChaoticEntity

    Tegger Guest

    wrote in

    Bent valve.
    Tegger, Sep 11, 2007
  10. ChaoticEntity

    jim beam Guest

    i agree with tegger - bent valve. you said that you adjusted the valves
    to factory spec - were any significantly loose before you did that?
    unless abused, honda valve lash rarely drifts that much.
    jim beam, Sep 11, 2007
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