95 Odyssey Crank pulley bolt direction

[Road Rage]

I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit it with some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night. Tomorrow when I hit it with the impact gun, which direction will LOOSEN the bolt?

It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.

 

[Tegger (2)]

I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit it with some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night. Tomorrow when I hit it with the impact gun, which direction will LOOSEN the bolt?

It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.

COUNTER-clockwise, just like normal!

And penetrating oil will do you zero good.

See here for lots of exciting info on how to get that puppy loose. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html

 

[loewent]

Good luck, they are bitchin tight. I ended up taking mine to a shop where they used their big bertha air ratchet to loosen it, and then snugged it up so I could drive home and do the job. It took a Chicago Pneumatic humungous ratchet about the size of a jackhammer to loosen this bolt. Tried a number of other tools, to no avail.

t

 

[Woody]

Since the torque spec is 250 pounds if I remember right You need big tools. You also need to torque it back unless you want it flying off someday on the road. You should also have the OEM service manual. For a lot of information and real life instructions see the forum at www.odyclub.com.

 

[e.meyer]

Since the torque spec is 250 pounds if I remember right You need big tools. You also need to torque it back unless you want it flying off someday on the road.  You should also have the OEM service manual. For a lot of information and real life instructions see the forum atwww.odyclub.com.

The torque spec is 180 pounds. You should be able to break it loose. The problem you will run into is when you try to get the timing cover out past the suspension part that blocks the space underneath. We ended up removing it as well.

btw. You are not supposed to tighten it back when you are done using the impact wrench. For that you need the immobilizer tool and a big torque wrench.

 

[Tegger (2)]

The torque spec is 180 pounds.

You sure? I see 162 ft-lbs in my Mitchell manual. Maybe your 180 is the initial tighten for a new bolt?

You should be able to break it
loose. The problem you will run into is when you try to get the timing cover out past the suspension part that blocks the space underneath. We ended up removing it as well.

btw. You are not supposed to tighten it back when you are done using the impact wrench. For that you need the immobilizer tool and a big torque wrench.

See here for immobilizer tools:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html#retighten

 

[e.meyer]

You sure? I see 162 ft-lbs in my Mitchell manual. Maybe your 180 is the initial tighten for a new bolt?

Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car anymore, but I still have the book.

 

[Michael Pardee]

Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car anymore, but I still have the book.

There has been extensive discussion here in the past as to just why the torque required to loosen the crank bolt is so much greater than the torque that was applied to tighten it originally. The upshot is that even my 500 ft-lb impact wrench has to work on the bolt for a while, and that is with the regulator moved to the driver to eliminate the drop in the hose. It would be interesting to know what the breakaway torque actually is, but I would bet it is more than 400 ft-lbs.

Mike

 

[e.meyer]

Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft.  I don't have the car anymore, but I still have the book.

There has been extensive discussion here in the past as to just why the torque required to loosen the crank bolt is so much greater than the torque that was applied to tighten it originally. The upshot is that even my 500 ft-lb impact wrench has to work on the bolt for a while, and that is with the regulator moved to the driver to eliminate the drop in the hose. It would be interesting to know what the breakaway torque actually is, but I would bet it is more than 400 ft-lbs.

Mike

I know from doing it on my Odyssey that it takes more than 250 to break it loose because we put a 250 ft-lb torque wrench on it when we were trying to loosen it & it maxed out the scale (just 'cause we were curious - we replaced it with a hardened breaker bar after we saw the reading). We were able to loosen it by hand using an impact socket, impact extension and a 4 ft piece of gas pipe on the breaker bar with a jack stand for a fulcrum and another breaker bar securing the immobilizer against the ground. It twisted the 12 inch extension a full 90 degrees then popped loose with a bang (make sure your extension is hardened).

 

[Tegger (2)]

I know from doing it on my Odyssey that it takes more than 250 to break it loose because we put a 250 ft-lb torque wrench on it when we were trying to loosen it & it maxed out the scale

This is a well-known phenomenon called "embedment".

Honda put out a notice to their dealership techs many years ago explaining it. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf

 

[jim beam]

This is a well-known phenomenon called "embedment".

Honda put out a notice to their dealership techs many years ago explaining it. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf

that doesn't call it "embedment" - it simply says to lube the thread on reassembly.

 

[Tegger (2)]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:55:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:

that doesn't call it "embedment" - it simply says to lube the thread on reassembly.

It says the threads "stick together". That's embedment.

 

[jim beam]

It says the threads "stick together". That's embedment.

that's just waffle terminology. real deal is asperity welding, wear, etc. and it doesn't address potential for tightening as components are subject to rotation with crank acceleration/deceleration.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2911225312/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2911225310/

 

[Tegger (2)]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:05:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:

that's just waffle terminology. real deal is asperity welding, wear, etc.

Then why didn't Honda just say so?

It would have cost them nothing more to say that instead of saying that the threads "stick together".

and it doesn't address potential for tightening as components are subject to rotation with crank acceleration/deceleration.

A properly tightened fastener does not rotate after final tightening. If there is relative motion, the fastener will come loose or snap, depending on the nature of the motion.

 

[jim beam]

Then why didn't Honda just say so?

It would have cost them nothing more to say that instead of saying that the threads "stick together".

there's a /ton/ of things they don't say. they don't discuss microstructure, corrosion, plating, surface texture, thermal gradients, fatigue, tribology, etc. they [sensibly] stick to the stuff relevant to their target audience "oil it and stick to spec on torque".

A properly tightened fastener does not rotate after final tightening.

not so. people don't generally worry about tightening, just loosening, since that's when the wheels fall off.

If
there is relative motion, the fastener will come loose or snap, depending on the nature of the motion.

no, there's a torque balance. r/h threads on the r/h side of big rig lug nuts for instance. precession has those tighten in service, but they reach an equilibrium. now, that can be real tight, but they don't just keep going till they snap. [tightness means there /is/ a reason the trade uses honking great 3/4" or even 1" impact drivers for wheel changes you know...]

 

[honda.lioness]

that's just waffle terminology.

It is incorrect terminology. Embedment is said to smooth surfaces and so result in less adhesion and loss of bolt tension. Embedment "can lead directly to loosening of a fastener joint and subsequent fatigue failure." (Wikipedia)

real deal is asperity welding,

Also known as galling. Agreed.

Newbies should understand that the pitch of the pulley bolt is even smaller than what is found on even fine thread bolts. This increases the tendency towards galling. IMO the conditions under which the bolt must operate (high thermal and load variation) promote galling even further.

 

[Michael Pardee]

Say, isn't this something like the discussion we had the last time?

Mike