95 Odyssey Crank pulley bolt direction

I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit it with
some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night. Tomorrow when I
hit it with the impact gun, which direction will LOOSEN the bolt?

It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.

 

COUNTER-clockwise, just like normal!

And penetrating oil will do you zero good.

See here for lots of exciting info on how to get that puppy loose.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html

 

Good luck, they are bitchin tight. I ended up taking mine to a shop
where they used their big bertha air ratchet to loosen it, and then
snugged it up so I could drive home and do the job. It took a Chicago
Pneumatic humungous ratchet about the size of a jackhammer to loosen
this bolt. Tried a number of other tools, to no avail.

t

 

Since the torque spec is 250 pounds if I remember right You need big tools.
You also need to torque it back unless you want it flying off someday on the
road. You should also have the OEM service manual. For a lot of information
and real life instructions see the forum at www.odyclub.com.

 

The torque spec is 180 pounds. You should be able to break it
loose. The problem you will run into is when you try to get the
timing cover out past the suspension part that blocks the space
underneath. We ended up removing it as well.

btw. You are not supposed to tighten it back when you are done using
the impact wrench. For that you need the immobilizer tool and a big
torque wrench.

 

You sure? I see 162 ft-lbs in my Mitchell manual. Maybe your 180 is the
initial tighten for a new bolt?

See here for immobilizer tools:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html#retighten

 

Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car
anymore, but I still have the book.

 

Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car
anymore, but I still have the book.

===================================================

There has been extensive discussion here in the past as to just why the
torque required to loosen the crank bolt is so much greater than the torque
that was applied to tighten it originally. The upshot is that even my 500
ft-lb impact wrench has to work on the bolt for a while, and that is with
the regulator moved to the driver to eliminate the drop in the hose. It
would be interesting to know what the breakaway torque actually is, but I
would bet it is more than 400 ft-lbs.

Mike

 

I know from doing it on my Odyssey that it takes more than 250 to
break it loose because we put a 250 ft-lb torque wrench on it when we
were trying to loosen it & it maxed out the scale (just 'cause we were
curious - we replaced it with a hardened breaker bar after we saw the
reading). We were able to loosen it by hand using an impact socket,
impact extension and a 4 ft piece of gas pipe on the breaker bar with
a jack stand for a fulcrum and another breaker bar securing the
immobilizer against the ground. It twisted the 12 inch extension a
full 90 degrees then popped loose with a bang (make sure your
extension is hardened).

 

This is a well-known phenomenon called "embedment".

Honda put out a notice to their dealership techs many years ago explaining
it.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf

 

that doesn't call it "embedment" - it simply says to lube the thread on
reassembly.

 

It says the threads "stick together". That's embedment.

 

that's just waffle terminology. real deal is asperity welding, wear,
etc. and it doesn't address potential for tightening as components are
subject to rotation with crank acceleration/deceleration.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2911225312/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2911225310/

 

Then why didn't Honda just say so?

It would have cost them nothing more to say that instead of saying that the
threads "stick together".

A properly tightened fastener does not rotate after final tightening. If
there is relative motion, the fastener will come loose or snap, depending
on the nature of the motion.

 

there's a /ton/ of things they don't say. they don't discuss
microstructure, corrosion, plating, surface texture, thermal gradients,
fatigue, tribology, etc. they [sensibly] stick to the stuff relevant to
their target audience "oil it and stick to spec on torque".

not so. people don't generally worry about tightening, just loosening,
since that's when the wheels fall off.

no, there's a torque balance. r/h threads on the r/h side of big rig lug
nuts for instance. precession has those tighten in service, but they
reach an equilibrium. now, that can be real tight, but they don't just
keep going till they snap. [tightness means there /is/ a reason the trade
uses honking great 3/4" or even 1" impact drivers for wheel changes you
know...]

 

It is incorrect terminology. Embedment is said to smooth surfaces and
so result in less adhesion and loss of bolt tension. Embedment "can
lead directly to loosening of a fastener joint and subsequent fatigue
failure." (Wikipedia)

Also known as galling. Agreed.

Newbies should understand that the pitch of the pulley bolt is even
smaller than what is found on even fine thread bolts. This increases
the tendency towards galling. IMO the conditions under which the bolt
must operate (high thermal and load variation) promote galling even
further.

 

Say, isn't this something like the discussion we had the last time?

Mike