93 civic turns over but won't start

[brettellingson]

Hello,

I've looked at quite a few posts plus I've read, re-read and read some more of a Haynes service manual and am about at the end of my rope. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Here's my story:
I drove my 93 civic to work last week and at lunch it wouldn't start. It would turn over but that was it.

I had it towed home and a friend came over and we checked a few things. The timing belt seems to look fine. We unscrewed a vent type of nut from the top of the fuel filter and turned over the engine and gas was coming out.

Then we checked for sparks on the wires. We didn't have any sparks. So we started looking at the distributor.

We couldn't see anything obvious so I picked up a ohmmeter/voltmeter and tested the coil. It seemed to fail the test the book mentions so I bought another coil. Also, I bought new plugs, new rotor and new cap and fuel filter (they haven't been replace for too many miles anyway). I installed all of the above stuff I bought and the car still won't start.

The sound it makes now, after the new coil, rotor & cap are installed, when it turns over is a bit different. Sounds like it almost wants to catch, but doesn't. I checked 2 of the wires (1 & 2) and they both have a spark going to them. One thing I want to check is to go ahead and check the other 2 wires. But my guess is that they are fine too. I say this because I checked the resistance of the wires with my new ohmmeter and they seemed to check out; that's why I didn't go ahead and buy new wires.

But the big problem is: the car still won't start!!

So, is it something maybe with the fuel too? I can hear the pump kick on when I turn the ignition switch on and fuel comes out. One test in the book says to attach a fuel pressure test kit and test for pressure (but that's another $30 and 3 hours of time).

I still haven't checked the ICM, but could the distributor be producing a spark to the wires without the ICM working correctly? As it stands it seems like maybe I should take back the new coil and get an entire distributor and put the new one in and see if that would work. The one in there now is also a replacement I had put in about 3 years ago. It's one from a 95 honda civic.

At this point I'm ready to go ahead and let a shop look at it. I let a friend talk me into trying to get it started at home but it's been over a week since it broke down and I have a spare vehicle to use to get around but I need my work car back. I'd rather learn to fix it because it's totally paid for and I would like to continue using my beloved honda as long as possible.

The car has 196,000 miles or so.

Thanks for any help you can give to save my sanity and get my car fixed.

P.S. This is also posted in rec.autos.tech group

 

[Remco (2)]

I don't think your ignitor is the problem as you are getting sparks.

You could have jumped some teeth, but that is also less likely since you weren't getting sparks. What are the chances that you have both problems happen at the very same time, right?

Last time I had a problem like this with our integra, after I got it all fixed it would not start either. It sounded different, but just wouldn't catch. I had spark again so my problem was indeed fixed (in my case it was the ignitor and coil). To get it started, I took the large air intake hose off and shot some starter fluid in the manifold. Flooring the pedal, It caughed back to life and has been running fine since then.

I am not sure why this was needed, but suspect that the computer somehow retained the bad condition and made adjustments accordingly. After the fix was made, those adjustments were totally bogus. This is pure conjecture, but it worked for me. (On a Subaru and Saab, I do know the computers does do weird things like this, so my assumption is that Honda/Accura might be similar)

Hope this is useful to you.
Remco

 

[John Ings]

Also, I bought new plugs, new rotor and new cap
and fuel filter

And I'll bet that last is the cause of your present problem.

The sound it makes now, after the new coil, rotor & cap are installed, when it turns over is a bit different. Sounds like it almost wants to catch, but doesn't.

Because the fuel rail isn't up to full pressure.

So, is it something maybe with the fuel too? I can hear the pump kick on when I turn the ignition switch on and fuel comes out.

But the 2 seconds that the ECU lets the pump run is only enough to bring the fuel rail up to full pressure if it's already full. If it's been drained because of a fuel filter change, the pump has to run for 20 or 30 seconds to bring the rail up to pressure.

So either jumper 12 volts direct to the fuel pump for a minute or so, or cycle the ignition key from off to run a dozen times before you try to turn the engine over. See also:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling

 

[brettellingson]

I don't think your ignitor is the problem as you are getting sparks.

You could have jumped some teeth, but that is also less likely since you weren't getting sparks. What are the chances that you have both problems happen at the very same time, right?

Last time I had a problem like this with our integra, after I got it all fixed it would not start either. It sounded different, but just wouldn't catch. I had spark again so my problem was indeed fixed (in my case it was the ignitor and coil). To get it started, I took the large air intake hose off and shot some starter fluid in the manifold. Flooring the pedal, It caughed back to life and has been running fine since then.

I am not sure why this was needed, but suspect that the computer somehow retained the bad condition and made adjustments accordingly. After the fix was made, those adjustments were totally bogus. This is pure conjecture, but it worked for me. (On a Subaru and Saab, I do know the computers does do weird things like this, so my assumption is that Honda/Accura might be similar)

Hope this is useful to you.
Remco

Thanks for the help, I'll try these things and get back to you

 

[brettellingson]

Thanks, I'll try these things and get back to you

 

[disallow]

yes, i agree with john, if the fuel line was emptied out, there may be air pockets, so it would need to be primed b4 it will deliver fuel properly...

 

[Graham W]

Thanks, I'll try these things and get back to you

Clean the external surface of the HT plug wires with some kind of solvent (gas?) and when it's completely dried out try it again.

 

[TeGGeR®]

wrote in

Hello,

I've looked at quite a few posts plus I've read, re-read and read some more of a Haynes service manual and am about at the end of my rope. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Well, you can start properly cross-posting instead of posting two separate messages with identical subject lines in unrelated groups. You're a newbie, aren't you?

Two things to try: First, turn key on (but NOT to Start!) so Check Engine light comes on. Wait for it to go off. Turn key off, then on again, wait, then off. Repeat a dozen times. Now try to start.

Didn't work? Second method:

Listen VERY carefully to the area under the dash, to the left of the steering wheel, as you turn the key.

1) Turn key to ON (but not start): Check Engine light comes on. You should hear a CLICK from the EFI Main Relay
2) Check engine light goes off: Another CLICK from Main Relay
3) Turn key to START: Final CLICK from Main Relay.

Do you hear any of those clicks?

It may be helpful to put your hand under the dash behind the coin box and touch the relay to feel the clicks.

If you hear all the clicks, start suspecting the ignition switch. How new is your key? A worn key can cause this too.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling

 

[SoCalMike]

So either jumper 12 volts direct to the fuel pump for a minute or so, or cycle the ignition key from off to run a dozen times before you try to turn the engine over. See also:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling

good time to check for leaks, too.

 

[brettellingson]

I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the confusion of posting in 2 groups.

I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was flooded. Now it's running fine.

In the future, how to you fix flooding?

Thanks for the help and the posts.

 

[SoCalMike]

I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the confusion of posting in 2 groups.

I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was flooded. Now it's running fine.

In the future, how to you fix flooding?

floor the pedal while cranking. lets more air in and shuts off the injectors.

 

[motsco_ _]

I didn't really consider myself a newbie....but sorry for causing the confusion of posting in 2 groups.

I broke down and took the car to a local mechanic. They ran a dianostic: no problems. Saw gas on the spark plugs and realized it was flooded. Now it's running fine.

In the future, how to you fix flooding?

Thanks for the help and the posts.

The temporary fix is to hold it to the floor and crank it till it starts. That one's in your owner's manual..The CURE is to find out which injector is bleeding down your fuel rail pressure when the car is sitting. Running a can of injector cleaner, or a few qanks of Gasohol thru it might fix it forever. Try a Google search for flooding honda or whatever and see if there's any better suggestions.

'Curly'