91 Accord doesn't start

Discussion in 'Accord' started by Raj, Dec 5, 2003.

  1. Raj

    Raj Guest

    Hi All,

    My 91 Accord with 146K miles won't start since 2 days. I browsed
    thru' the NG and I found that the symptoms match the famous "main
    relay" problem. So last night I tried more diagnosis. Here' what I
    found -
    - when I turned the key to run, I couln't hear the fuel pump
    whirring. It is posssible that it is running and I couldn't hear it
    beacuse of road noise (heavy traffic)
    - when the "check engine" shuts off, I hear a click; so I *guess*
    the fp is shutting down
    - when I turn the key to start, it sounds like it *wants* to start
    but can't.
    - tried to jump from my Odyssey as well as from AAA guy to no avail.

    Please help me determine what could be broken.
    I plan to replace the MR anyway tomorrow (what the heck, it will
    probabaly break soon anyway!)

    TIA.

    Raj
     
    Raj, Dec 5, 2003
    #1
  2. Raj

    NomoreRGS Guest

    good chance that's it. especially if you just had a very hot or cold
    day (relay). it could start working just as fast as it stopped
    working. try again when the relay might have gotten to a more normal
    temperature. after changing it it will probably start right up as
    usual.
     
    NomoreRGS, Dec 5, 2003
    #2
  3. Raj

    Jim Yanik Guest

    (Raj) wrote in
    Here's how to FIX the main relay,and save yourself some money($50)

    http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/electrical/main-relay/main-relay.htm

    resoldering it is easy,takes about 0.5 hr

    Eliminate it as a problem if something else is.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 6, 2003
    #3
  4. --------------------------------------

    Raj,

    Try turning the key to the ON position, and wait until the lamp test is
    finished. Then smack the dash with your fist and see if the fuel pump
    runs. If so, it's the relay all right. Your car will now start, but may
    not run consistently.

    'Curly'
    -----------------------
     
    'Curly Q. Links', Dec 6, 2003
    #4
  5. Raj

    Jason Faas Guest


    These guys in the group just helped me with a faulty main relay last week,
    so I'll pass on a little of what I learned.

    You mention the click when the "check engine" shut off. Mine had the same
    click, even though the relay wasn't working properly. It is a rather
    complicated relay, actually two in one, with one dependent upon the other.
    If either switch fails, the car won't run.

    I think the easiest test is to pull the connector and put two jumper wires
    in place of the relay. On my '91 *Civic*, they connect from 1-3, and 5-7.
    I can only guess that it is the same on your Accord. I'll try to draw a
    picture of the connector.


    _______
    ________|_______|________
    |_2__|__4___|___6__|__8__|
    |_1__|__3___|___5__|__7__|


    It's up to you if you want to drive with these in place. The big danger is
    the fuel pump will keep running if you crash, possibly creating a big fire.
    The other caution is to disconnect wires when not driving.

    Good luck,

    Jason
     
    Jason Faas, Dec 6, 2003
    #5
  6. Raj

    Jim Yanik Guest

    On my Integra,the main relay was NOT affixed to the dash,but to something
    on the left side of the driver's footwell.YMMV.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 6, 2003
    #6
  7. Raj

    Jim Yanik Guest

    Geez,it's SO much easier (and safer!)to just resolder the main
    relay,ELIMINATING it as a trouble source.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 6, 2003
    #7
  8. Raj

    Jason Faas Guest


    Well, it took me 20 minutes to get the relay out of it's hiding spot in my
    Civic and an additional 10 seconds to TEST it by replacing it with jumper
    wires as described above. Since it did not run with the relay, and did run
    with the jumpers, I could then be sure that the relay was at fault and
    proceed to solder it, thus ELIMINATING it as a trouble source. It's also a
    good trick to have up your sleeve if your home soldering job fails for any
    reason and you need to get your car to a safer area.

    Jason
     
    Jason Faas, Dec 6, 2003
    #8
  9. Raj

    Raj Guest

    === snip ===

    Thanks all. We got about a foot of snow dumped on us since Friday!
    The Accord was sitting out in the driveway where I was trying to jump
    it, so I guess the relay replacement must wait till tomorrow or Mon.
    :-(
    I *was* puzzled about it's behavior during past few months. I had
    encountered the standard "won't start after a quick run to grocery
    store" a few times. I should have queried this NG back then, would
    have saved myself some grief. Oh well!

    Thanks again.

    Raj
     
    Raj, Dec 7, 2003
    #9
  10. Raj

    Jim Yanik Guest

    Once you have removed the MR,why not resolder it anyways?
    I've never heard of a resoldered relay failing again.
    Use electrical solder,not pipe solder.
     
    Jim Yanik, Dec 7, 2003
    #10
  11. Raj

    Raj Guest

    OK guys. I got the silver CC out of the way, but am not having any
    luck getting the relay out! The relay seems to be attached with one
    nut and I can't get it to budge. I tried getting the relay out of it's
    housing with a small flat screwdriver but no luck.
    Help!

    TIA

    Raj
     
    Raj, Dec 7, 2003
    #11
  12. Raj

    Raj Guest

    == snip ===
    I got the bolt out but another black plastic case is attached to the
    same bolt *above* the relay and I can't reach the second bolt this
    plastic case is attached to :-(
    I also am unable to remove the connector or the relay out of it's
    housing. How do I get the relay out of it's housing? TIA.

    Raj
     
    Raj, Dec 8, 2003
    #12
  13. Raj

    NomoreRGS Guest

    I don't think you can get the relay out of it's housing while still
    mounted. It's much easier to remove it and the housing than trying to
    get it out of the housing in the car.

    Heres a link to a great site to fix a main relay. It helped me
    tremendously when I had the problem with my '91 Accord.
    The cracked soldier joint was very hard to spot. Even when
    knowing exactly what to look for. Mine was just a little mark on
    one post (didn't even look like a crack). When un-soldiering this
    joint the soldier melted differently than the other joints.

    http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/electrical/main-relay/main-relay.htm
     
    NomoreRGS, Dec 8, 2003
    #13
  14. Raj

    Raj Guest

    I am envious of all of you who got the relay out in 5 minutes :)
    Man! What a bi*ch it was for me, because of the *other* plastic box
    attached to one of the same screws as the relay and I could'nt get to
    the other screw of the box!!!! Good thing the kids and wife were
    inside 'cause I let it have it :)
    Anyway, the darned thing is out and most of the solder joint bases are
    RUSTED!
    Anyone seen that before? I am not going to bother soldering it,
    instead will get a new one tomorrow. Hopefully this was the cause of
    my problems. Will keep you guys posted.
    As always THANKS for all the help.

    Raj
     
    Raj, Dec 9, 2003
    #14
  15. Raj

    NomoreRGS Guest

    Oh, it wasn't 5 minutes for me either. Nor fun! I think I got up
    from being on my back a little frustrated and thought about it
    standing up. Then realized there wasn't an easier way. Just get in
    there somehow and get it out. Getting it back in wasn't much better!

    There wasn't any rust on mine and it's pretty damp here on Long
    Island. I wonder if you have a windshield leak? Or had the inside of
    the car get very wet and not dry for quite a while. A new relay
    sounds like a good thing.
     
    NomoreRGS, Dec 9, 2003
    #15
  16. Raj

    Raj Guest

    I am Northern NJ, not entire different weather conditions. No leaks,
    car is dry inside. I don't know why the relay could be rusted ...
    Anyway, I put a new relay in tonight. The battery had died so I set up
    jump from my van, turned the key to on, heard clicks, beeps because
    the door was open, then I tried to start the car and every thing died.
    Engine wouldn't even crank. Turned the key to off and tried again ...
    nothing.... all's dead. Do you think I blew something? Or another
    problem just happened to show up?

    Thanks.

    Raj
     
    Raj, Dec 10, 2003
    #16
  17. It's possible that something else went wrong but I doubt it. I wonder if
    the new relay was defective or if you failed to install or connect it
    properly. You might want to check all electrical connections related to
    the relay. If all else fails, have it towed to your favorite mechanic and
    have him figure out what is wrong with it.
     
    Bill B. Johnson, Dec 10, 2003
    #17
  18. Raj

    NomoreRGS Guest

    I agree with your advice. There are a few other things you can look
    at.

    Does anything electrical work in the car? If not sounds like the
    battery is dead and you didn't get a good connection when jumping it.
    I don't know if there is a main fuse or fuseable link the Accord. If
    there is and it's burnt that could be the problem (nothing would work
    then).

    You can also try the old relay again to see if it behaves as it did
    before the swap. The new one doesn't have to be removed and the old
    one mounted as long as there is enough wire to remove the connector
    and get it on the old relay. I believe the relay is for the fuel pump
    and ECU only and has nothing to do with the starting circuit.
     
    NomoreRGS, Dec 10, 2003
    #18
  19. Raj

    Raj Guest

    == snip ==

    We are on the same page here. So I reinstalled the new relay last
    night and I got the engine light, fuel pump whirr, and enginer did
    crank, but wouldn't start. Now the battery on the Accord is completely
    dead and it is possible that Odyssey's battery just couldn't do it.
    Does that sound like a possibility?

    TIA.

    Raj
     
    Raj, Dec 11, 2003
    #19
  20. I learned a little trick about jump starting several years ago. When the
    battery is totally dead or almost totally dead, use this trick or tip.
    Connect the jumper cables and start the vehicle that has the good battery.
    Wait about 5 minutes before you try to start the vehicle with the dead
    battery.If it does not start--wait 5 more minutes before you try again.
     
    Bill B. Johnson, Dec 11, 2003
    #20
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