91 Accord doesn't start

  • Thread starter Thread starter Raj
  • Start date Start date
R

Raj

Hi All,

My 91 Accord with 146K miles won't start since 2 days. I browsed
thru' the NG and I found that the symptoms match the famous "main
relay" problem. So last night I tried more diagnosis. Here' what I
found -
- when I turned the key to run, I couln't hear the fuel pump
whirring. It is posssible that it is running and I couldn't hear it
beacuse of road noise (heavy traffic)
- when the "check engine" shuts off, I hear a click; so I *guess*
the fp is shutting down
- when I turn the key to start, it sounds like it *wants* to start
but can't.
- tried to jump from my Odyssey as well as from AAA guy to no avail.

Please help me determine what could be broken.
I plan to replace the MR anyway tomorrow (what the heck, it will
probabaly break soon anyway!)

TIA.

Raj
 
good chance that's it. especially if you just had a very hot or cold
day (relay). it could start working just as fast as it stopped
working. try again when the relay might have gotten to a more normal
temperature. after changing it it will probably start right up as
usual.
 
[email protected] (Raj) wrote in
Hi All,

My 91 Accord with 146K miles won't start since 2 days. I browsed
thru' the NG and I found that the symptoms match the famous "main
relay" problem. So last night I tried more diagnosis. Here' what I
found -
- when I turned the key to run, I couln't hear the fuel pump
whirring. It is posssible that it is running and I couldn't hear it
beacuse of road noise (heavy traffic)
- when the "check engine" shuts off, I hear a click; so I *guess*
the fp is shutting down
- when I turn the key to start, it sounds like it *wants* to start
but can't.
- tried to jump from my Odyssey as well as from AAA guy to no avail.

Please help me determine what could be broken.
I plan to replace the MR anyway tomorrow (what the heck, it will
probabaly break soon anyway!)

TIA.

Raj
Click to expand...

Here's how to FIX the main relay,and save yourself some money($50)

http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/electrical/main-relay/main-relay.htm

resoldering it is easy,takes about 0.5 hr

Eliminate it as a problem if something else is.
 
Raj said:
Hi All,

My 91 Accord with 146K miles won't start since 2 days. I browsed
thru' the NG and I found that the symptoms match the famous "main
relay" problem. So last night I tried more diagnosis. Here' what I
found -
- when I turned the key to run, I couln't hear the fuel pump
whirring. It is posssible that it is running and I couldn't hear it
beacuse of road noise (heavy traffic)
- when the "check engine" shuts off, I hear a click; so I *guess*
the fp is shutting down
- when I turn the key to start, it sounds like it *wants* to start
but can't.
- tried to jump from my Odyssey as well as from AAA guy to no avail.

Please help me determine what could be broken.
I plan to replace the MR anyway tomorrow (what the heck, it will
probabaly break soon anyway!)

TIA.

Raj
Click to expand...

--------------------------------------

Raj,

Try turning the key to the ON position, and wait until the lamp test is
finished. Then smack the dash with your fist and see if the fuel pump
runs. If so, it's the relay all right. Your car will now start, but may
not run consistently.

'Curly'
-----------------------
 
Hi All,

My 91 Accord with 146K miles won't start since 2 days. I browsed
thru' the NG and I found that the symptoms match the famous "main
relay" problem. So last night I tried more diagnosis. Here' what I
found -
- when I turned the key to run, I couln't hear the fuel pump
whirring. It is posssible that it is running and I couldn't hear it
beacuse of road noise (heavy traffic)
- when the "check engine" shuts off, I hear a click; so I *guess*
the fp is shutting down
- when I turn the key to start, it sounds like it *wants* to start
but can't.
- tried to jump from my Odyssey as well as from AAA guy to no avail.

Please help me determine what could be broken.
I plan to replace the MR anyway tomorrow (what the heck, it will
probabaly break soon anyway!)

TIA.

Raj
Click to expand...


These guys in the group just helped me with a faulty main relay last week,
so I'll pass on a little of what I learned.

You mention the click when the "check engine" shut off. Mine had the same
click, even though the relay wasn't working properly. It is a rather
complicated relay, actually two in one, with one dependent upon the other.
If either switch fails, the car won't run.

I think the easiest test is to pull the connector and put two jumper wires
in place of the relay. On my '91 *Civic*, they connect from 1-3, and 5-7.
I can only guess that it is the same on your Accord. I'll try to draw a
picture of the connector.


_______
________|_______|________
|_2__|__4___|___6__|__8__|
|_1__|__3___|___5__|__7__|


It's up to you if you want to drive with these in place. The big danger is
the fuel pump will keep running if you crash, possibly creating a big fire.
The other caution is to disconnect wires when not driving.

Good luck,

Jason
 
--------------------------------------

Raj,

Try turning the key to the ON position, and wait until the lamp test is
finished. Then smack the dash with your fist and see if the fuel pump
runs. If so, it's the relay all right. Your car will now start, but may
not run consistently.

'Curly'
Click to expand...

On my Integra,the main relay was NOT affixed to the dash,but to something
on the left side of the driver's footwell.YMMV.
 
These guys in the group just helped me with a faulty main relay last
week, so I'll pass on a little of what I learned.

You mention the click when the "check engine" shut off. Mine had the
same click, even though the relay wasn't working properly. It is a
rather complicated relay, actually two in one, with one dependent upon
the other. If either switch fails, the car won't run.

I think the easiest test is to pull the connector and put two jumper
wires in place of the relay. On my '91 *Civic*, they connect from
1-3, and 5-7. I can only guess that it is the same on your Accord.
I'll try to draw a picture of the connector.


_______
________|_______|________
|_2__|__4___|___6__|__8__|
|_1__|__3___|___5__|__7__|


It's up to you if you want to drive with these in place. The big
danger is the fuel pump will keep running if you crash, possibly
creating a big fire. The other caution is to disconnect wires when not
driving.

Good luck,

Jason
Click to expand...

Geez,it's SO much easier (and safer!)to just resolder the main
relay,ELIMINATING it as a trouble source.
 
Geez,it's SO much easier (and safer!)to just resolder the main
relay,ELIMINATING it as a trouble source.
Click to expand...


Well, it took me 20 minutes to get the relay out of it's hiding spot in my
Civic and an additional 10 seconds to TEST it by replacing it with jumper
wires as described above. Since it did not run with the relay, and did run
with the jumpers, I could then be sure that the relay was at fault and
proceed to solder it, thus ELIMINATING it as a trouble source. It's also a
good trick to have up your sleeve if your home soldering job fails for any
reason and you need to get your car to a safer area.

Jason
 
=== snip ===

Thanks all. We got about a foot of snow dumped on us since Friday!
The Accord was sitting out in the driveway where I was trying to jump
it, so I guess the relay replacement must wait till tomorrow or Mon.
:-(
I *was* puzzled about it's behavior during past few months. I had
encountered the standard "won't start after a quick run to grocery
store" a few times. I should have queried this NG back then, would
have saved myself some grief. Oh well!

Thanks again.

Raj
 
On 12/6/03 9:01, in article
[email protected], "Jim Yanik"




Well, it took me 20 minutes to get the relay out of it's hiding spot
in my Civic and an additional 10 seconds to TEST it by replacing it
with jumper wires as described above. Since it did not run with the
relay, and did run with the jumpers, I could then be sure that the
relay was at fault and proceed to solder it, thus ELIMINATING it as a
trouble source. It's also a good trick to have up your sleeve if your
home soldering job fails for any reason and you need to get your car
to a safer area.

Jason
Click to expand...

Once you have removed the MR,why not resolder it anyways?
I've never heard of a resoldered relay failing again.
Use electrical solder,not pipe solder.
 
Jim Yanik said:
Once you have removed the MR,why not resolder it anyways?
I've never heard of a resoldered relay failing again.
Use electrical solder,not pipe solder.
Click to expand...

OK guys. I got the silver CC out of the way, but am not having any
luck getting the relay out! The relay seems to be attached with one
nut and I can't get it to budge. I tried getting the relay out of it's
housing with a small flat screwdriver but no luck.
Help!

TIA

Raj
 
== snip ===
OK guys. I got the silver CC out of the way, but am not having any
luck getting the relay out! The relay seems to be attached with one
nut and I can't get it to budge. I tried getting the relay out of it's
housing with a small flat screwdriver but no luck.
Help!

TIA

Raj
Click to expand...

I got the bolt out but another black plastic case is attached to the
same bolt *above* the relay and I can't reach the second bolt this
plastic case is attached to :-(
I also am unable to remove the connector or the relay out of it's
housing. How do I get the relay out of it's housing? TIA.

Raj
 
I don't think you can get the relay out of it's housing while still
mounted. It's much easier to remove it and the housing than trying to
get it out of the housing in the car.

Heres a link to a great site to fix a main relay. It helped me
tremendously when I had the problem with my '91 Accord.
The cracked soldier joint was very hard to spot. Even when
knowing exactly what to look for. Mine was just a little mark on
one post (didn't even look like a crack). When un-soldiering this
joint the soldier melted differently than the other joints.

http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/electrical/main-relay/main-relay.htm
 
I am envious of all of you who got the relay out in 5 minutes :-)
Man! What a bi*ch it was for me, because of the *other* plastic box
attached to one of the same screws as the relay and I could'nt get to
the other screw of the box!!!! Good thing the kids and wife were
inside 'cause I let it have it :-)
Anyway, the darned thing is out and most of the solder joint bases are
RUSTED!
Anyone seen that before? I am not going to bother soldering it,
instead will get a new one tomorrow. Hopefully this was the cause of
my problems. Will keep you guys posted.
As always THANKS for all the help.

Raj
 
Oh, it wasn't 5 minutes for me either. Nor fun! I think I got up
from being on my back a little frustrated and thought about it
standing up. Then realized there wasn't an easier way. Just get in
there somehow and get it out. Getting it back in wasn't much better!

There wasn't any rust on mine and it's pretty damp here on Long
Island. I wonder if you have a windshield leak? Or had the inside of
the car get very wet and not dry for quite a while. A new relay
sounds like a good thing.
 
NomoreRGS said:
Oh, it wasn't 5 minutes for me either. Nor fun! I think I got up
from being on my back a little frustrated and thought about it
standing up. Then realized there wasn't an easier way. Just get in
there somehow and get it out. Getting it back in wasn't much better!

There wasn't any rust on mine and it's pretty damp here on Long
Island. I wonder if you have a windshield leak? Or had the inside of
the car get very wet and not dry for quite a while. A new relay
sounds like a good thing.

== snip ===
Click to expand...

I am Northern NJ, not entire different weather conditions. No leaks,
car is dry inside. I don't know why the relay could be rusted ...
Anyway, I put a new relay in tonight. The battery had died so I set up
jump from my van, turned the key to on, heard clicks, beeps because
the door was open, then I tried to start the car and every thing died.
Engine wouldn't even crank. Turned the key to off and tried again ...
nothing.... all's dead. Do you think I blew something? Or another
problem just happened to show up?

Thanks.

Raj
 
NomoreRGS <[email protected]> wrote in message

I am Northern NJ, not entire different weather conditions. No leaks,
car is dry inside. I don't know why the relay could be rusted ...
Anyway, I put a new relay in tonight. The battery had died so I set up
jump from my van, turned the key to on, heard clicks, beeps because
the door was open, then I tried to start the car and every thing died.
Engine wouldn't even crank. Turned the key to off and tried again ...
nothing.... all's dead. Do you think I blew something? Or another
problem just happened to show up?

Thanks.

Raj
Click to expand...

It's possible that something else went wrong but I doubt it. I wonder if
the new relay was defective or if you failed to install or connect it
properly. You might want to check all electrical connections related to
the relay. If all else fails, have it towed to your favorite mechanic and
have him figure out what is wrong with it.
 
I agree with your advice. There are a few other things you can look
at.

Does anything electrical work in the car? If not sounds like the
battery is dead and you didn't get a good connection when jumping it.
I don't know if there is a main fuse or fuseable link the Accord. If
there is and it's burnt that could be the problem (nothing would work
then).

You can also try the old relay again to see if it behaves as it did
before the swap. The new one doesn't have to be removed and the old
one mounted as long as there is enough wire to remove the connector
and get it on the old relay. I believe the relay is for the fuel pump
and ECU only and has nothing to do with the starting circuit.
 
NomoreRGS said:
I agree with your advice. There are a few other things you can look
at.

Does anything electrical work in the car? If not sounds like the
battery is dead and you didn't get a good connection when jumping it.
I don't know if there is a main fuse or fuseable link the Accord. If
there is and it's burnt that could be the problem (nothing would work
then).

You can also try the old relay again to see if it behaves as it did
before the swap. The new one doesn't have to be removed and the old
one mounted as long as there is enough wire to remove the connector
and get it on the old relay. I believe the relay is for the fuel pump
and ECU only and has nothing to do with the starting circuit.
Click to expand...

== snip ==

We are on the same page here. So I reinstalled the new relay last
night and I got the engine light, fuel pump whirr, and enginer did
crank, but wouldn't start. Now the battery on the Accord is completely
dead and it is possible that Odyssey's battery just couldn't do it.
Does that sound like a possibility?

TIA.

Raj
 
NomoreRGS <[email protected]> wrote in message

== snip ==


We are on the same page here. So I reinstalled the new relay last
night and I got the engine light, fuel pump whirr, and enginer did
crank, but wouldn't start. Now the battery on the Accord is completely
dead and it is possible that Odyssey's battery just couldn't do it.
Does that sound like a possibility?

TIA.

Raj
Click to expand...

I learned a little trick about jump starting several years ago. When the
battery is totally dead or almost totally dead, use this trick or tip.
Connect the jumper cables and start the vehicle that has the good battery.
Wait about 5 minutes before you try to start the vehicle with the dead
battery.If it does not start--wait 5 more minutes before you try again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest threads

Back
Top