89 civic idle & torque converter issues

Discussion in 'Civic' started by Matt Gadient, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Matt Gadient

    Matt Gadient Guest

    Hi. I recently bought an 89 civic (automatic) and it seems to have a couple
    little quirks...

    First is the idle... every once in a while, i'll be sitting at a light and
    the idle will go up, and i'll have to push the brake fairly hard to keep
    from going into the intersection (or into the car ahead of me). I can't
    tell if temperature makes a difference. The idle stays high for awhile
    before finally dropping back down.

    Second is a little stranger... When driving down the highway, once the car
    hits 4th, the torque converter frequently starts kicking in and out. It
    seems to get better as the car warms up, but it'll still do it every once in
    a while (and then it seems like it's "trying" to re-engage a few times, and
    then finally does). The time when it's worst is when the car first goes on
    the highway. As soon as the car gets into 4th, the TC kicks in and out
    every 1-2 seconds (almost rythmically), and then all of a sudden stops
    trying and the check engine light comes on. After that the TC doesn't
    engage anymore (and engine light stays on) until the ignition is turned off
    and on again. I checked the stored code from the check engine light and it
    was a '1'. I replaced the oxygen sensor, but it hasn't helped. I'm
    wondering if it's another sensor or if maybe the ecu is screwed up.

    The only things I've tried to fix the above problems thus far are bleeding
    the cooling system of air, changing the oxygen sensor, and checking the EACV
    resistance and voltages as per the Haynes manual instructions.

    Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated. At this point, I'm completely
    lost, and it would be nice to get this thing running well. Thanks.

    Matt
     
    Matt Gadient, Jul 29, 2004
    #1
  2. my 86 accord was doing the same thing and a transmission job was not far
    behind. I belive there is a throttle position sensor on the tranny that
    tells the idle speed, you should check that, also your tranny oil, and all
    that good stuff. Generally that sounds pretty bad. You might want to find
    out about your lemon law or get them to check that tranny for you cause
    honda transmissions are F$#*ing expensive.
     
    Daniel Garrison, Jul 29, 2004
    #2
  3. my 86 accord was doing the same thing and a transmission job was not far
    behind. I belive there is a throttle position sensor on the tranny that
    tells the idle speed, you should check that, also your tranny oil, and all
    that good stuff. Generally that sounds pretty bad. You might want to find
    out about your lemon law or get them to check that tranny for you cause
    honda transmissions are F$#*ing expensive.
     
    Daniel Garrison, Jul 29, 2004
    #3
  4. Matt Gadient

    Eric Guest

    Is under any type of warranty. If so, then that might be the best way to
    deal with it. The throttle problem sounds like a safety issue sufficient to
    warrant the car's return or repair by the seller.
    A code 1 doesn't necessarily mean that the O2 sensor had a problem. The
    following information is quoted from a Tech2Tech bulletin board.

    "A code 1 is listed as an O2 sensor code, but in many cases is not
    actually a bad O2. Tons of O2 sensors get changed over a DTC 1
    that are fine. What it really means is the O2 voltage does not have
    enough "activity".

    If the car is running rich it will fix the voltage high, if it is
    running lean it will fix the voltage low. You need to determine if
    the O2 is not responding due to it being defective or is it due to a
    rich/lean condition.

    Preferably get a DSO on the output wire, but a DVOM would work. See
    if the output is fixed... It probably is. You need to create a
    temporary rich and lean condition to see if the O2 will respond.
    If it does, the O2 is ok and you really have a rich/lean condition
    that is fixing the O2 voltage.

    You can create a temporary rich condition by whacking hard on the
    throttle or flowing propane into the intake. You can create a
    temporary lean condition by letting the throttle slam shut from
    about 2500-3000rpm (uses the fuel cut strategy) or unplugging an
    injector. Since Hondas are speed/density systems, pulling off a
    vacuum hose will not create a lean condition."

    Note that if you do this procedure with a DVOM, you'll need one with a fast
    sampling rate such that you'll get a good representation of the data.
    Have you tried replacing the transmission fluid? Some people here have
    recommended repeated draining and filling to eventually replace the whole
    fluid as it's not completely changed on one drain and fill. For example,
    drain and fill it once (you should get about 2.5 quarts of fluid), drive it
    a couple of days or so and drain and fill it again, and repeat a couple of
    more times. The fill capacity after rebuild is given as 5.7 quarts while
    the oil change capacity is given as 2.5 quarts. A rough calculation yields
    that after 4 changes 9.9% of the original fluid would remain while after 6
    changes 3.3% of the original fluid would remain. Note that I don't know if
    the volumes given in the service manual include the ATF cooler so those
    percentages may vary slightly.

    You may also wish to get a factory service manual from
    http://www.helminc.com for better diagnostic advice. You can check
    out some online versions at
    http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/workshopmanuals2.html

    Eric
     
    Eric, Jul 30, 2004
    #4
  5. Matt Gadient

    Eric Guest

    Is under any type of warranty. If so, then that might be the best way to
    deal with it. The throttle problem sounds like a safety issue sufficient to
    warrant the car's return or repair by the seller.
    A code 1 doesn't necessarily mean that the O2 sensor had a problem. The
    following information is quoted from a Tech2Tech bulletin board.

    "A code 1 is listed as an O2 sensor code, but in many cases is not
    actually a bad O2. Tons of O2 sensors get changed over a DTC 1
    that are fine. What it really means is the O2 voltage does not have
    enough "activity".

    If the car is running rich it will fix the voltage high, if it is
    running lean it will fix the voltage low. You need to determine if
    the O2 is not responding due to it being defective or is it due to a
    rich/lean condition.

    Preferably get a DSO on the output wire, but a DVOM would work. See
    if the output is fixed... It probably is. You need to create a
    temporary rich and lean condition to see if the O2 will respond.
    If it does, the O2 is ok and you really have a rich/lean condition
    that is fixing the O2 voltage.

    You can create a temporary rich condition by whacking hard on the
    throttle or flowing propane into the intake. You can create a
    temporary lean condition by letting the throttle slam shut from
    about 2500-3000rpm (uses the fuel cut strategy) or unplugging an
    injector. Since Hondas are speed/density systems, pulling off a
    vacuum hose will not create a lean condition."

    Note that if you do this procedure with a DVOM, you'll need one with a fast
    sampling rate such that you'll get a good representation of the data.
    Have you tried replacing the transmission fluid? Some people here have
    recommended repeated draining and filling to eventually replace the whole
    fluid as it's not completely changed on one drain and fill. For example,
    drain and fill it once (you should get about 2.5 quarts of fluid), drive it
    a couple of days or so and drain and fill it again, and repeat a couple of
    more times. The fill capacity after rebuild is given as 5.7 quarts while
    the oil change capacity is given as 2.5 quarts. A rough calculation yields
    that after 4 changes 9.9% of the original fluid would remain while after 6
    changes 3.3% of the original fluid would remain. Note that I don't know if
    the volumes given in the service manual include the ATF cooler so those
    percentages may vary slightly.

    You may also wish to get a factory service manual from
    http://www.helminc.com for better diagnostic advice. You can check
    out some online versions at
    http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/workshopmanuals2.html

    Eric
     
    Eric, Jul 30, 2004
    #5
  6. Matt Gadient

    jim beam Guest

    for the transmission, is the cable that runs from the throttle to the
    transmission adjusted correctly? they are frequently "tweaked" to make
    the car shift more aggressively. the honda manual allows for only 3mm
    of adjustment between normal & "improved", but i bought one that had
    been adjusted nearly 10mm and that had lockup clutch issues like you
    describe. ymmv, but adjust it back to "normal" and see if that helps.
     
    jim beam, Jul 30, 2004
    #6
  7. Matt Gadient

    jim beam Guest

    for the transmission, is the cable that runs from the throttle to the
    transmission adjusted correctly? they are frequently "tweaked" to make
    the car shift more aggressively. the honda manual allows for only 3mm
    of adjustment between normal & "improved", but i bought one that had
    been adjusted nearly 10mm and that had lockup clutch issues like you
    describe. ymmv, but adjust it back to "normal" and see if that helps.
     
    jim beam, Jul 30, 2004
    #7
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