88 Accord LX shutting off after warming up

[Tanner]

I just bought an 88 Accord LX and once it reaches running temperature it either starts misfiring severely then stalls or just straight up stalls. When it dies it's instant, like it just stopped receiving spark and then it will not start at all unless I let it sit for like an hour. When the car starts it's instant and idles at about 2200rpm then goes down to 880rpm in a bit and runs perfectly for a good 5-10 minutes that is. Only other thing is after it warms up smoke rises up from under the header intermittenly in large amounts, goes away sometimes if I turn the A/C on. Thanks a lot for the help, this is my only car right now so I'm hitching rides to work and the sooner I figure it out the better.

My thoughts:
Bad igniter or ignition coil
Carb rebuild needed
Choke problem
Main Relay

 

[Tanner]

I just finished checking the PCV valve and although it does rattle, the plunger is soaked with oil I'm not sure if this is abnormal but it all does seem to be pointing to a bad PCV valve especially the intermittent oil smoke. Will replace it tommorow and update.....

 

['Curly Q. Links']

I just bought an 88 Accord LX and once it reaches running temperature it either starts misfiring severely then stalls or just straight up stalls. When it dies it's instant, like it just stopped receiving spark and then it will not start at all unless I let it sit for like an hour. When the car starts it's instant and idles at about 2200rpm then goes down to 880rpm in a bit and runs perfectly for a good 5-10 minutes that is. Only other thing is after it warms up smoke rises up from under the header intermittenly in large amounts, goes away sometimes if I turn the A/C on. Thanks a lot for the help, this is my only car right now so I'm hitching rides to work and the sooner I figure it out the better.

My thoughts:
Bad igniter or ignition coil
Carb rebuild needed
Choke problem
Main Relay

Main relay is VERY doubtful, since it's vibration that keeps a bad main relay functioning. Bad igniter or ignition coil sound like good candidates. Did you search this newsgroup for ALL the great posts about this topic?

Is your coolant reservoir full up?

'Curly'

 

[88accord170+]

the accord have a control for cold starting that make them run fast to warm up a cold engine. When, if at all, did you last replace little things like spark plug wires, distributor cap and plugs. the wires can do WONDERS for ignition probs.

 

[Elle]

Take the below seriously. Also, use only OEM parts for the engine ignition parts. They pay for themselves.

Also do the air filter and fuel filter and check the timing. Just replace the PCV valve. It's cheap enough, and they do get clogged over time. Replaced my 91 Civic's at 140k miles or so, and fuel mileage went way up.

Because this seems temperature dependent, I am betting on the ignition coil for now.

 

[mpwilliams]

I just bought an 88 Accord LX and once it reaches running temperature it either starts misfiring severely then stalls or just straight up stalls. When it dies it's instant, like it just stopped receiving spark and then it will not start at all unless I let it sit for like an hour. When the car starts it's instant and idles at about 2200rpm then goes down to 880rpm in a bit and runs perfectly for a good 5-10 minutes that is. Only other thing is after it warms up smoke rises up from under the header intermittenly in large amounts, goes away sometimes if I turn the A/C on. Thanks a lot for the help, this is my only car right now so I'm hitching rides to work and the sooner I figure it out the better.

My thoughts:
Bad igniter or ignition coil
Carb rebuild needed
Choke problem
Main Relay

My '88 Accord LXi recently developed precisely the same symptoms, which were immediately resolved by replacing the TW sensor.

 

[Tanner]

Thanks for the quick responses, I work second shift so I have little to no time to work on the car. I spent A LOT of time searching the topics similiar to this but obviously each one is a little different than what I'm experiencing. I replaced the PCV valve before work and am going to try and wake up earlier lol to see if that helped. The guy I got it from said he recently replaced the spark plugs, wires, cap, and rotor but it has the original ignition coil so I will replace that tommorow too.

 

[nm5k]

Thanks for the quick responses, I work second shift so I have little to no time to work on the car. I spent A LOT of time searching the topics similiar to this but obviously each one is a little different than what I'm experiencing. I replaced the PCV valve before work and am going to try and wake up earlier lol to see if that helped. The guy I got it from said he recently replaced the spark plugs, wires, cap, and rotor but it has the original ignition coil so I will replace that tommorow too.

Don't overlook the possibility of severe carbon crud. I saw a severe case of this on a camry we have , and it will cause the same symtoms. I think it's probably a bit more critical on FI engines, but can probably do it with carbs too. I assume you have a carb, if it's a 88 LX... If the intake valves get carboned up, it will snowcone around the valves. The car will start great when cold, but as it warms up the carbon expands, and the car quits due to lack of compression. The valves won't close all the way. Let it cool, and it will runs again. For a short while... The camry we had in three shops, and the third was a dealer. None of them could find the problem. The yota dealer said it was a bad wiring harness, and charged us about $400 for their misdiagnosis. I asked them if they checked it, and they said, we can't. I had to laugh... Anyway, I took it home, and checked the harness myself, one wire at a time. All was good. Why they couldn't do this, I dunno.. Rookies I guess.. It took me a while, but I finally found out the real problem. SEVERE CARBON BUILDUP!!! It took me about a week to get it all cleaned out. I fed it a mix of carb cleaner and techron straight into the vac lines. Let it get good and wet, and then kill the engine and let it sit. Over and over. It's the sitting time where the crud actually melts. This also applies to using techron normally in the gas tank. The only time it's actually doing any good is when you kill the hot motor and let it sit. The more often you do that, the faster it will clean it up. You can get flush kits if you want to do it real fast. Or take to a place that has a motovac machine, etc.. Anyway, if all the usual tests like fuel output, spark, etc, etc turn up ok, I'd be eyeballing for carbon crud. BTW, a carboned up engine will really show up when under a heavy load. Often they will quit once the carbon gets good and hot. Also.. The carbon soaks up fuel vapors, and can cause lean running. Are you plugs white looking? Seem to run real lean? It can also cause hot spots in the chambers.. The carbon gets glowing hot. Can cause detonation, pinging, etc.. Even burn a piston in a bad case.. Carbon will cause all that. Nasty it is..
MK

 

[Tanner]

Thanks that info is much useful, as much as I hope it isn't the problem it sure sounds like it is. I just had it running with the new pcv valve and I cleaned the warm air flapper in the intake as it was gummed shut due large amounts of gummy oil, still didn't help it shut off after about 10 minutes and the coolant hoses were already too hot to touch. If I remember correctly when I pulled one of the spark plugs it WAS white too. Only other new thing is I shut the car off at about 5 minutes of running it and it dieseled a little bit. Thanks again for the help I WILL figure this out soon, Tanner

 

[Tanner]

I worked on it from 7 am to 12 am to no avail in the blistering heat so you can imagine I'm about to give up as I HAVE to get to work I can't be getting rides ar 12am much longer. I checked all the vaccum lines, cleaned the warm air flappper, replaced PCV valve, replaced auxuliary fuel filter, tested choke function, tested fuel cut off relay function and related circuitry, listened to the fuel pump..........IDK. I orderd an ignition coil as I could get a spark plug to work when I pulled it out grounded it and cranked the motor over (after it had stalled). I Doubt this $45 fix will help it but it's worth a shot, also when goes to stall if I slam the gas it does nothing.

 

[nm5k]

I Doubt this $45 fix will help it but it's worth a shot, also when goes to stall if I slam the gas it does nothing.

One other thing... When it konks out, does the speed of the starter get faster, or sound irregular? If carbon expands and keeps the valves from closing, the loss of compression will usually make the starter speed/sound change a bit. If you are getting spark, the present coil is probably good. With what you describe, I would probably suspect lack of fuel before lack of spark. But...It could still be carbon.. I was thinking you could do a pump volume test, but my book doesn't give a spec for volume vs time in seconds. They say to test the pressure with a gauge. The carb version should do 2.4-3.4 psi.
MK

 

[Michael Pardee]

I Doubt this $45 fix will help it but it's worth a shot, also when goes to stall if I slam the gas it does nothing.

I agree with Elle; the coil is on the top of my suspect list. BTW - when you get the replacement don't forget it is a big no-no to fire the coil without a load. The coil will short out.

Mike

 

['Curly Q. Links']

I just bought an 88 Accord LX and once it reaches running temperature it either starts misfiring severely then stalls or just straight up stalls. When it dies it's instant, like it just stopped receiving spark and then it will not start at all unless I let it sit for like an hour.

Since the car is new-to-you, did you check to see if the igniter has the proper heat-sink paste on the backside (like a Pentium Chip).

If it can't keep cool, it will shut down like you described. I think we had another one like this a few months ago. I may be wrong.

'Curly'

 

[Elle]

I agree with Elle; the coil is on the top of my suspect list. BTW - when you get the replacement don't forget it is a big no-no to fire the coil without a load. The coil will short out.

Just reinforcing Mike's point about not firing the coil unloaded. Tegger's site discusses this. At least one poster in the last year destroyed a new coil or fairly young coil this way.

 

[mpwilliams]

I Doubt this $45 fix will help it but it's worth a shot, also when goes to stall if I slam the gas it does nothing.

Replace the TW sensor.

 

[Tanner]

Ok, again thanks for all the responses you guys are VERY helpful. I have the car scheduled to go in the shop tommow but i don't think thats gonna happen as I don't wanna get it towed 3 blocks away and drive it those 6 blocks uninspected, uninsured, unregistered AND pay a $65 an hour labor rate to get it diagnosed yet. Every other post I have read and what you guys are saying points to these exact things so what the hell they are old anyways so here's what I'm going to replace this weekend;

Ignition coil, tw sensor (where is its exact location cant find info), check to see if the igniter has the proper heat-sink paste on the backside (how would I know if its wrong?) or just replace the darn thing, and gap the plugs.

Typo before, I meant to say "I orderd an ignition coil as I COULDN't get a spark plug to work when I pulled it out grounded it and cranked the motor over (right after it had stalled), could just be that I didn't ground the plug good or am just blind lol. Although I cant hear the fuel pump working when I pop the auxiliary fuel filter off a little fuel does squirt out.

UPDATE THIS WEEKEND STAY TUNED!

 

[Tanner]

One other thing... When it konks out, does the speed of the starter get faster, or sound irregular?
MK

I don't recall it changing noticeably no.

 

[Tanner]

Sorry one more thing I forgot (we should be able to edit posts), and this may sound retarded but what do you mean not firing the ignition coil unloaded? Making sure everything is connected?

 

[Michael Pardee]

Sorry one more thing I forgot (we should be able to edit posts), and this may sound retarded but what do you mean not firing the ignition coil unloaded? Making sure everything is connected?

That's the best way - you can hold the wire near ground so a spark can jump, but just don't operate the ignition with no place for the energy to go http://tinyurl.com/fauw6. It zaps the coil, like this:
http://tinyurl.com/hp5th

Mike

 

[mpwilliams]

Ok, again thanks for all the responses you guys are VERY helpful. I have the car scheduled to go in the shop tommow but i don't think thats gonna happen as I don't wanna get it towed 3 blocks away and drive it those 6 blocks uninspected, uninsured, unregistered AND pay a $65 an hour labor rate to get it diagnosed yet. Every other post I have read and what you guys are saying points to these exact things so what the hell they are old anyways so here's what I'm going to replace this weekend;

Ignition coil, tw sensor (where is its exact location cant find info), check to see if the igniter has the proper heat-sink paste on the backside (how would I know if its wrong?) or just replace the darn thing, and gap the plugs.

Typo before, I meant to say "I orderd an ignition coil as I COULDN't get a spark plug to work when I pulled it out grounded it and cranked the motor over (right after it had stalled), could just be that I didn't ground the plug good or am just blind lol. Although I cant hear the fuel pump working when I pop the auxiliary fuel filter off a little fuel does squirt out.

UPDATE THIS WEEKEND STAY TUNED!

To locate the TW sensor, peer in to the engine compartment from the front of your car; the sensor should be about 1-1/2 inches to the left of the rear-left (your left) corner of the head cover.

The performance of the TW sensor is sensitive to the presence of air in the cooling system. Before you replace the sensor, you might want to make sure that your cooling system - including heater core - is fully purged. Coolant level in the reservoir tank should be up to the 'max' line.