2008 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study: Porsche, Honda, Chevroletamong big winners

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/latest_news_reviews/porsche_honda_chevrolet_among_big_winners_in_2008_j_d_power_initial_quality_study_car_news

Porsche, Honda, Chevrolet Among Big Winners in 2008 J.D. Power Initial
Quality Study - Car News

GM and Ford do well, but Chrysler winds up near the bottom.

BY JOSEPH SZCZESNY
June 2008

For the third year in a row, Porsche came out on top in the J.D. Power
and Associates closely watched annual Initial Quality Survey (IQS) of
vehicles sold in the U.S. by three dozen top automotive brands. (The
complete rankings can be found on the next page of this article. Click
here.)

Porsche, which makes its home in Stuttgart, Germany, came out as the
top automaker in the annual quality survey, while the Mercedes-Benz
plant in Sindelfingen just outside of Stuttgart was named the top
assembly plant. Porsche's Stuttgart plant, where the 911 cabriolet and
coupe are built, came away with a "Silver" award as one of the best
assembly plants in Europe, just ahead of BMW's Regensburg assembly
plant.

Overall, Mercedes-Benz moved up one place against last year from fifth
to fourth in the brand-level ranking, and three Mercedes-Benz models
were among the top three of their respective segments.

However, vehicles from General Motors, Ford, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan
also did well in the survey. For consumers, the survey is considered a
good predictor of ownership experience throughout the life of a
vehicle, even though it measures buyer satisfaction after a vehicle
has been owned for just 90 days, officials from J.D. Power noted.

David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power's
vehicle group, said the 2008 results reflected a steady
"democratization of quality" across the industry. Japanese brands no
longer dominate key vehicle categories, noted Sargent, echoing
arguments domestic carmakers have been trying to make with only
limited success. "All of the manufacturers are doing a really good
job," Sargent said as he presented the 2008 survey results to the
Automotive Press Association in Detroit.

Individual Vehicle Accolades and Overall Improvement

The survey also highlights the best vehicle in 17 different segments,
ranging from subcompact passenger cars to full-size vans. No
manufacturer was tops in more than three categories, Sargent said.
However, Honda, which seems to be on a roll this spring, won in the
critical subcompact and compact car categories with the Fit and Civic
and in the compact activity vehicle with the CR-V. In addition, the
Chevrolet Malibu came away with top honors in the highly competitive
mid-size car category, much to the satisfaction of General Motors.

"Initial quality in the automotive industry has improved significantly
in 2008, with substantial gains demonstrated by nearly three-fourths
of the 36 ranked nameplates," Sargent noted. Overall quality improved
to 118 problems per 100 vehicles in 2008, down from 125 registered in
2007, added Sargent, who noted more than 81,000 consumers participated
in the poll.
"Due to some strong new-vehicle launches, in addition to a continued
reduction in the level of defects and malfunctions, overall quality
improved by six percent in 2008, compared with 2007," Sargent said.
"This gain is driven not only by strong advances from many of the high-
volume brands such as Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota, but also by very
significant improvements by many other automakers.”

Sargent added that the industry-wide improvement was driven by
automakers’ efforts to listen better to customer opinions and
observations and to integrate the feedback into designing,
engineering, and manufacturing better vehicles.

Flaws Now Blamed More on Initial Engineering, Less on Assembly

Where assembly plants used to get a bad rap in earlier surveys, many
of the items buyers now find unappealing are design flaws that have to
be fixed upstream in the vehicle development process rather than
factory defects that are relatively easy to fix, Sargent said.
"Considerable work is needed in design quality," around the industry,
he said.

The introduction of new technology into a vehicle also is a challenge,
he said. There are a lot of complaints about the integration of sound
system and navigation screens. Manufacturers have to be aware of the
challenges as they offer the new technology, he said.

Tom Wilkinson, GM spokesman, said the IQS results generally indicate
GM's efforts to upgrade the company's models are working. "The Malibu
was the fourth-best car in the entire survey," even though it was a
brand new model, Wilkinson noted.

Meanwhile, Ford moved up to eighth place from tenth, while Mercury
moved up two spots to sixth place, just ahead of the Honda brand,
noted Ford officials. "For customers who make their purchase decision
based on quality, Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles must be on their
shopping lists," said Bennie Fowler, Ford group vice president, Global
Quality. "It is gratifying to see our commitment to quality paying off
in such recognition by J.D. Power and Associates," he said.

The one company that slipped, however, was Chrysler. Chrysler did have
the top vehicle in two different segments—the Durango and Dakota
topped their segments—but the Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep brands were in
the bottom quarter overall among the 36 brands surveyed. The Jeep
brand, in fact, was dead last. The bottom tier also included brands
such as MINI, Land Rover, Saturn, Suzuki, and Saab.
Chrysler spokesman Ed Saenz acknowledged Chrysler needed to raise the
quality scores. "We're not satisfied," he said. "We know we need to do
better."

 

But the difference between the best to the worst is still only 0.8
problem per car. (Jeep's 167 - Porsche's 87) / 100

 

Plus, the system does not account for the severity of the problems. A
car with a rare, but serious, problem (engine catching fire that
destroys car) might make people less satisfied, on average, with the
cars than a more common (but less serious) problem (car has defective
blower motor switch, which does not require assistance of a fire
department).

Jeff

 

wrote:

<snip>

Well poor initial quality is probably a good indicator of poor
long-term-dependability, but not vice-versa.

Porsche's 2007 long-term-dependability was way below average (this is
for models 3 years old).

Which vehicles are in the top ten for both IQ and LTD?

Lexus
Honda
Toyota
Mercury


GM, Ford, and Chrysler should consider offering a 10 year bumper to
bumper warranty for non-wear items, perhaps with a deductible in years
6-10. They need to convince people that their vehicles are reliable in
the face of surveys like the ones from JD Power and Consumer Reports.

 

Consider most Porsche owners are somewhat fanatical about ownership of these
cars and hesitate to complain about mundane issues like the rest of us
might.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/latest_news_reviews/porsche_honda_chevrolet_among_big_winners_in_2008_j_d_power_initial_quality_study_car_news

Porsche, Honda, Chevrolet Among Big Winners in 2008 J.D. Power Initial
Quality Study - Car News

GM and Ford do well, but Chrysler winds up near the bottom.

BY JOSEPH SZCZESNY
June 2008

For the third year in a row, Porsche came out on top in the J.D. Power
and Associates closely watched annual Initial Quality Survey (IQS) of
vehicles sold in the U.S. by three dozen top automotive brands. (The
complete rankings can be found on the next page of this article. Click
here.)

Porsche, which makes its home in Stuttgart, Germany, came out as the
top automaker in the annual quality survey, while the Mercedes-Benz
plant in Sindelfingen just outside of Stuttgart was named the top
assembly plant. Porsche's Stuttgart plant, where the 911 cabriolet and
coupe are built, came away with a "Silver" award as one of the best
assembly plants in Europe, just ahead of BMW's Regensburg assembly
plant.

Overall, Mercedes-Benz moved up one place against last year from fifth
to fourth in the brand-level ranking, and three Mercedes-Benz models
were among the top three of their respective segments.

However, vehicles from General Motors, Ford, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan
also did well in the survey. For consumers, the survey is considered a
good predictor of ownership experience throughout the life of a
vehicle, even though it measures buyer satisfaction after a vehicle
has been owned for just 90 days, officials from J.D. Power noted.

David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power's
vehicle group, said the 2008 results reflected a steady
"democratization of quality" across the industry. Japanese brands no
longer dominate key vehicle categories, noted Sargent, echoing
arguments domestic carmakers have been trying to make with only
limited success. "All of the manufacturers are doing a really good
job," Sargent said as he presented the 2008 survey results to the
Automotive Press Association in Detroit.

Individual Vehicle Accolades and Overall Improvement

The survey also highlights the best vehicle in 17 different segments,
ranging from subcompact passenger cars to full-size vans. No
manufacturer was tops in more than three categories, Sargent said.
However, Honda, which seems to be on a roll this spring, won in the
critical subcompact and compact car categories with the Fit and Civic
and in the compact activity vehicle with the CR-V. In addition, the
Chevrolet Malibu came away with top honors in the highly competitive
mid-size car category, much to the satisfaction of General Motors.

"Initial quality in the automotive industry has improved significantly
in 2008, with substantial gains demonstrated by nearly three-fourths
of the 36 ranked nameplates," Sargent noted. Overall quality improved
to 118 problems per 100 vehicles in 2008, down from 125 registered in
2007, added Sargent, who noted more than 81,000 consumers participated
in the poll.
"Due to some strong new-vehicle launches, in addition to a continued
reduction in the level of defects and malfunctions, overall quality
improved by six percent in 2008, compared with 2007," Sargent said.
"This gain is driven not only by strong advances from many of the high-
volume brands such as Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota, but also by very
significant improvements by many other automakers.”

Sargent added that the industry-wide improvement was driven by
automakers’ efforts to listen better to customer opinions and
observations and to integrate the feedback into designing,
engineering, and manufacturing better vehicles.

Flaws Now Blamed More on Initial Engineering, Less on Assembly

Where assembly plants used to get a bad rap in earlier surveys, many
of the items buyers now find unappealing are design flaws that have to
be fixed upstream in the vehicle development process rather than
factory defects that are relatively easy to fix, Sargent said.
"Considerable work is needed in design quality," around the industry,
he said.

The introduction of new technology into a vehicle also is a challenge,
he said. There are a lot of complaints about the integration of sound
system and navigation screens. Manufacturers have to be aware of the
challenges as they offer the new technology, he said.

Tom Wilkinson, GM spokesman, said the IQS results generally indicate
GM's efforts to upgrade the company's models are working. "The Malibu
was the fourth-best car in the entire survey," even though it was a
brand new model, Wilkinson noted.

Meanwhile, Ford moved up to eighth place from tenth, while Mercury
moved up two spots to sixth place, just ahead of the Honda brand,
noted Ford officials. "For customers who make their purchase decision
based on quality, Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles must be on their
shopping lists," said Bennie Fowler, Ford group vice president, Global
Quality. "It is gratifying to see our commitment to quality paying off
in such recognition by J.D. Power and Associates," he said.

The one company that slipped, however, was Chrysler. Chrysler did have
the top vehicle in two different segments—the Durango and Dakota
topped their segments—but the Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep brands were in
the bottom quarter overall among the 36 brands surveyed. The Jeep
brand, in fact, was dead last. The bottom tier also included brands
such as MINI, Land Rover, Saturn, Suzuki, and Saab.
Chrysler spokesman Ed Saenz acknowledged Chrysler needed to raise the
quality scores. "We're not satisfied," he said. "We know we need to do
better."

 

I'd guess just the reverse is true. When a car fanatic spends the big
(ultrabig!) bucks for a Porsche, I'd bet he'd head to the dealership if
there was a click in the windshield wiper, or a slightly crooked something
or other that bugged him, whereas joe sixpack would ignore it. I used to be
the roommate of a Porsche owner, and he wanted perfection at all times in
any weather and was not about to put up with any imperfections.

 

Great discussion, the mentality is just like Corvette owner's choice of
this " world" renowned car makes them less likely to voice dissatisfaction
with their purchase. The initial quality survey is sent to owners who check
off boxes related to quality. If the survey was done off warranty records,
the result may be different. My friend has a Z06, which has had a number of
complex driveability issues, he still loves the car.

 

But doesn't that also mean, on average, every Jeep has almost two problems
for Porsche's one? That's not so minor.

 

Don't most people like the car they just bought within 90 days? Weak
Statistic. Otherwise, it's kinda like admitting you're stupid. The
meaningful information comes from those who have owned a car before and
after the warranty is off. Not the non-manufacturer(exeption to the
exception Kia/Hyundia 3/4 scale cars) exteneded warranty that covers only
powertrain components except the ones you have go defective. As people
tended to switch off from the domestics they were less likely to admit they
bought a piece of crap. As people move to the latest fad cars they are less
likely to admit their stupidity if if sucks. Again, 90 days means little
when you consider human nature. Above average durability and customer
service over the long run is what keeps customers happy.


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/latest_news_reviews/porsche_honda_chevrolet_among_big_winners_in_2008_j_d_power_initial_quality_study_car_news

Porsche, Honda, Chevrolet Among Big Winners in 2008 J.D. Power Initial
Quality Study - Car News

GM and Ford do well, but Chrysler winds up near the bottom.

BY JOSEPH SZCZESNY
June 2008

For the third year in a row, Porsche came out on top in the J.D. Power
and Associates closely watched annual Initial Quality Survey (IQS) of
vehicles sold in the U.S. by three dozen top automotive brands. (The
complete rankings can be found on the next page of this article. Click
here.)

Porsche, which makes its home in Stuttgart, Germany, came out as the
top automaker in the annual quality survey, while the Mercedes-Benz
plant in Sindelfingen just outside of Stuttgart was named the top
assembly plant. Porsche's Stuttgart plant, where the 911 cabriolet and
coupe are built, came away with a "Silver" award as one of the best
assembly plants in Europe, just ahead of BMW's Regensburg assembly
plant.

Overall, Mercedes-Benz moved up one place against last year from fifth
to fourth in the brand-level ranking, and three Mercedes-Benz models
were among the top three of their respective segments.

However, vehicles from General Motors, Ford, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan
also did well in the survey. For consumers, the survey is considered a
good predictor of ownership experience throughout the life of a
vehicle, even though it measures buyer satisfaction after a vehicle
has been owned for just 90 days, officials from J.D. Power noted.

David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power's
vehicle group, said the 2008 results reflected a steady
"democratization of quality" across the industry. Japanese brands no
longer dominate key vehicle categories, noted Sargent, echoing
arguments domestic carmakers have been trying to make with only
limited success. "All of the manufacturers are doing a really good
job," Sargent said as he presented the 2008 survey results to the
Automotive Press Association in Detroit.

Individual Vehicle Accolades and Overall Improvement

The survey also highlights the best vehicle in 17 different segments,
ranging from subcompact passenger cars to full-size vans. No
manufacturer was tops in more than three categories, Sargent said.
However, Honda, which seems to be on a roll this spring, won in the
critical subcompact and compact car categories with the Fit and Civic
and in the compact activity vehicle with the CR-V. In addition, the
Chevrolet Malibu came away with top honors in the highly competitive
mid-size car category, much to the satisfaction of General Motors.

"Initial quality in the automotive industry has improved significantly
in 2008, with substantial gains demonstrated by nearly three-fourths
of the 36 ranked nameplates," Sargent noted. Overall quality improved
to 118 problems per 100 vehicles in 2008, down from 125 registered in
2007, added Sargent, who noted more than 81,000 consumers participated
in the poll.
"Due to some strong new-vehicle launches, in addition to a continued
reduction in the level of defects and malfunctions, overall quality
improved by six percent in 2008, compared with 2007," Sargent said.
"This gain is driven not only by strong advances from many of the high-
volume brands such as Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota, but also by very
significant improvements by many other automakers.”

Sargent added that the industry-wide improvement was driven by
automakers’ efforts to listen better to customer opinions and
observations and to integrate the feedback into designing,
engineering, and manufacturing better vehicles.

Flaws Now Blamed More on Initial Engineering, Less on Assembly

Where assembly plants used to get a bad rap in earlier surveys, many
of the items buyers now find unappealing are design flaws that have to
be fixed upstream in the vehicle development process rather than
factory defects that are relatively easy to fix, Sargent said.
"Considerable work is needed in design quality," around the industry,
he said.

The introduction of new technology into a vehicle also is a challenge,
he said. There are a lot of complaints about the integration of sound
system and navigation screens. Manufacturers have to be aware of the
challenges as they offer the new technology, he said.

Tom Wilkinson, GM spokesman, said the IQS results generally indicate
GM's efforts to upgrade the company's models are working. "The Malibu
was the fourth-best car in the entire survey," even though it was a
brand new model, Wilkinson noted.

Meanwhile, Ford moved up to eighth place from tenth, while Mercury
moved up two spots to sixth place, just ahead of the Honda brand,
noted Ford officials. "For customers who make their purchase decision
based on quality, Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles must be on their
shopping lists," said Bennie Fowler, Ford group vice president, Global
Quality. "It is gratifying to see our commitment to quality paying off
in such recognition by J.D. Power and Associates," he said.

The one company that slipped, however, was Chrysler. Chrysler did have
the top vehicle in two different segments—the Durango and Dakota
topped their segments—but the Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep brands were in
the bottom quarter overall among the 36 brands surveyed. The Jeep
brand, in fact, was dead last. The bottom tier also included brands
such as MINI, Land Rover, Saturn, Suzuki, and Saab.
Chrysler spokesman Ed Saenz acknowledged Chrysler needed to raise the
quality scores. "We're not satisfied," he said. "We know we need to do
better."

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is why I can't possibly see how J.D. Power surveys are useful in
determining anything other than initial quality which is what they are
designed to measure. And I actually am a big believer in Porsches, I
just don't think that J.D. Power results mean squat to anyone who's
going to keep their car after the warranty runs out.

nate

 

Absolutely. If I paid that much $$$ for a new car I'd expect it to be
damn perfect. You're not spending all that money to look cool
(hopefully) you are spending it because you appreciate engineering
excellence.

nate

 

Powers has a lot of importance. Look at all the advertising revenue it
generates. It is also very important to know what the best car is for those
that keep them for 3 to 6 months. If, OTOH, you intend to keep your car for
5 or 15 years, it has no meaning at all.

 

Consumer Reports has more meaning to the long term owner.

If the question is, how much service did you need in the first year of
ownership, then JD Powers is the place to look. but when the question
becomes, how much service did you need after 5 years, then Consumer Reports
has the better answer.

 

I agree.

And we keep seeing Buick at the top of the list, but we know it's the
same shit that GM puts out under the Chevy nameplate, so it's not the
car. In the case of Buick, it's the driver. 2500 miles/year at 25mph,
never in the snow, and otherwise garaged--hell, what car WOULDN'T be top
notch under those conditions?

 

Good point! When one asks someone how they like their new vehicle, the
response is usually not "I hate it!"

Kind of like asking that person what kind of a deal they negotiated on the
car, people rarely say "I paid too much."

Also kind of like asking that person about their driving skills...
regardless of their age, experience, gender, race, religion, ethnic
background, level of education, financial status, or knowledge about the
workings of an automobile, they all consider themselves above average
drivers!

 

I only know of one person that actually said that. Cadillac Catera and
after a week he knew it was not the car for him. Kept it about two years
though.

I'm not just above average, I'm way above average.

 

Actually I can think of four vehicles I wish I had not purchased within 90
days - '78 Ford Fairmont, '81 Plymouth Reliant, '82 Toyota Cressida, '83
Mazda 626. The Reliant and Cressida were just giant POS's . They were by far
the two worst cars I ever owned - but for different reasons, the Reliant was
totally unreliable but performed well when it ran, the Cressida was both
unreliable and drove like a POS. The Fairmont was reliable but I just didn't
like it (too generic?). After driving the Mazda for 2 weeks I could never
get comfortable in it and hated driving it on trips. I sold it to my Sister
and she really liked it, so I guess it was just personal taste.

I don't think you guys are interpreting the survey correctly. They don't ask
if you like the car, they you how many problems you have had. Unless you
think Toyota owners are bigger liars than Chrysler owners, the results
should be comparable.

Ed

 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Strickland" <>
Newsgroups:
alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.toyota.camry,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: 2008 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study: Porsche, Honda,
Chevrolet among big winners

JD Powers also has a survey that address longer term reliability (3 years).
I suspect this is about as long as is meaningful. After three years I
suspect owner treatment of the vehicles becomes a significant factor in
reliability.

I've never had much respect for the CR survey results. I've answered them
for years, but think doing so is largely a waste of times. The survey is far
from random and they collect too little information to make the broad
pronouncements given in the magazines. The little circles they display in
the magazine are also misleading. They over emphasize the difference between
vehicles.

Ed

 

All sort of holes may be poked into conclusions drawn from
any survey.

The CR survey is as random as Power's ridiculously useless
survey.

Based on the numbers surveyed, combined with the number of
years covered, the results are most likely statistically
significant.

CR explains precisely what the difference between circle
coloring means.

 

I agree, mostly. Any survey is dependent upon the sheer number of
participants/respondants, and the more there are the greater the accuracy of
the data. With any survey, if one throws out the top and bottom extremes of
the response curve, the result should be relatively level and a reasonably
accurate indicator of the overall feeling of the sample group.

I don't think that JD Powers and Consumer Reports will attract significantly
different samples. They might ask different questions, and that might garner
different responses, and this can result in differing views on the overall
feeling of the groups, I don't see that either survey is better or worse
than the other.

I would not follow the advise of the editorial staff too closely, except
that they would have a good feel for the ergonomics, fit & finish, and
comments about "feel good" stuff. They can not address the long term
servicability issues, but they can accurately report on stuff such as noise
in the cabin, relative power and performance, location of cup holders, etc.

But, when actual owners are asked about what they like and dislike about
their cars, I have to give them far more weight for accurate responses.