2003 Accord EX Coupe - hydraulic cluctch issue?

[News Scout]

After searching several forums and this NG for a similar issue, I was
wondering if anyone has experienced a hydraulic leaking issue with a 5-speed
Accord EX? I picked this car up in March this year, drove it 7,500 miles,
had already performed the initial oil change, and was plenty happy when the
clutch went totally soft this week while driving to work. Turns out the
hydraulic pump for the clutch leaked (the dealer said it was a
manufacturer's defect) and needed to be replaced. With a broken-in 2003
Honda, I was blown away something like this could go wrong so early in the
car's lifetime.

Anyway, they fixed it and I was happy, although somewhat displeased with my
first Honda ever (after several bad GM experiences, I decided on Honda after
considering a Toyota Solara and Nissan Altima).

As luck would have it, ten minutes after I left the dealer, the clutch went
soft again and I could not get the 5-speed into any gear at all. Stranded -
again. The 2003 Accord is being loaded now onto a flatbed so they can fix
again, and I will surely need a rental car for a few days.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I must be the sole statistical anomaly here (or
am I) - has anyone else seen a hydraulic clutch go bad (leaking to the point
of ensuring you cannot get into gear) on a 2003 Accord EX coupe with a
5-speed? This is the standard 2.4L engine obviously.

 

[Tom Waugh]

After searching several forums and this NG for a similar issue, I was
wondering if anyone has experienced a hydraulic leaking issue with a 5-speed
Accord EX? I picked this car up in March this year, drove it 7,500 miles,
had already performed the initial oil change, and was plenty happy when the
clutch went totally soft this week while driving to work. Turns out the
hydraulic pump for the clutch leaked (the dealer said it was a
manufacturer's defect) and needed to be replaced. With a broken-in 2003
Honda, I was blown away something like this could go wrong so early in the
car's lifetime.

Anyway, they fixed it and I was happy, although somewhat displeased with my
first Honda ever (after several bad GM experiences, I decided on Honda after
considering a Toyota Solara and Nissan Altima).

As luck would have it, ten minutes after I left the dealer, the clutch went
soft again and I could not get the 5-speed into any gear at all. Stranded -
again. The 2003 Accord is being loaded now onto a flatbed so they can fix
again, and I will surely need a rental car for a few days.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I must be the sole statistical anomaly here (or
am I) - has anyone else seen a hydraulic clutch go bad (leaking to the point
of ensuring you cannot get into gear) on a 2003 Accord EX coupe with a
5-speed? This is the standard 2.4L engine obviously.

I have owned a 5 speed Accord before (a 99) and currently have a 01.
TPrelude -- plus we have a 5 spd Civic in the family. Never had a problem
with the clutch master or slave cylinders. Usually they start leaking
slowly at around 60 or so thousand miles and don't fail suddenly. Sounds
like a really inept dealer. The setup is akin to your brake system and
should not be that difficult to fix. I would try another dealer.

 

[News Scout]

Think I will do that - just irks me that an initial hydraulic clutch master
would fail without provocation after only 7K miles.....

And off we go.....

 

[Tom Waugh]

More--- The hydraulic clutch set-up has been around for years. The British
sports cars of the 50s & 60s had that set-up and it was generally pretty
reliable. Most of the time when they leaked they were rebuilt. Nowadays
they replace the entire unit -- at least that what the Nissan folks did with
a 5 spd Maxima I had 10 years ago. I have never heard of a failure like
yours ever. I would certainly write to Honda about it and the dealer
obviously did not get it right.
\

 

[News Scout]

I plan on writing Honda this week - firstly, about it going bad so early in
the lifetime of the car - and I drive very meticulously, even with a
5-speed.

The second issue is the dealership that fixed the first one (I hope,
anyway), and in which the issue again came back not 20 minutes after I drove
off the dealer's lot.

I am still in shock that an apparent design flaw/defect like this happened
in a brand new Honda. Looks like my confidence may have been misplaced.

Anyway, at least a have a sprightly Ford Focus as a rental courtesy of Honda
(kinda fun to drive, but what an econocar that thing is).

 

[Bill B. Johnson]

After searching several forums and this NG for a similar issue, I was
wondering if anyone has experienced a hydraulic leaking issue with a 5-speed
Accord EX? I picked this car up in March this year, drove it 7,500 miles,
had already performed the initial oil change, and was plenty happy when the
clutch went totally soft this week while driving to work. Turns out the
hydraulic pump for the clutch leaked (the dealer said it was a
manufacturer's defect) and needed to be replaced. With a broken-in 2003
Honda, I was blown away something like this could go wrong so early in the
car's lifetime.

Anyway, they fixed it and I was happy, although somewhat displeased with my
first Honda ever (after several bad GM experiences, I decided on Honda after
considering a Toyota Solara and Nissan Altima).

As luck would have it, ten minutes after I left the dealer, the clutch went
soft again and I could not get the 5-speed into any gear at all. Stranded -
again. The 2003 Accord is being loaded now onto a flatbed so they can fix
again, and I will surely need a rental car for a few days.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I must be the sole statistical anomaly here (or
am I) - has anyone else seen a hydraulic clutch go bad (leaking to the point
of ensuring you cannot get into gear) on a 2003 Accord EX coupe with a
5-speed? This is the standard 2.4L engine obviously.

Your vehicle is still under warranty--let the dealer do the work. If you
do it yourself or hire a private mechanic to do it--Honda will use this as
an escuse to not do work on the specific problem.

 

[News Scout]

Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
(and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.

I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
knows.

We'll see.................

 

[Bill B. Johnson]

Very true - it is still very much in warranty (only 7,000 miles). The
towing and rental cars have all been courtesy of Honda (no money spent at
all from me), so it is not that much of a nuisance at this time, as this car
is a lease anyway (I never buy cars). However, if it is a design defect
(and now I have seen both leaking mechanisms at the dealer's service
center), I would insist on a new car with an automatic transmission. The
non-confidence of being on a road trip and this happening again is not
something I want. A mechanical problem that happens once is one thing.
Twice makes me think real hard about alternatives.

I listened to the dealer talking to Honda Engineering in California and this
may be a larger issue than just my car. Apparently, the automatic outsells
the standard by 100-1, so there are not tens of thousands of 5-speed 2.4L
2003 Accord Coupes on the road - yet. If this is a bigger problem than just
the fluke of it happening to me twice, they have a big potential problem on
their hands. I doubt this would escalate into a recall, but who the hell
knows.

You may be right--this could be a bigger issue than just the problem with
your car. Many car companies try to keep problems that effect lots of cars
a secret from the public. They usually just fix the problems under the
warranty program as the owners bring them in for service. They will notify
the Honda mechanics via of special notices so they can fix the problems on
those effected vehicles. Rarely ever do car companies annouce a major
recall since a major recall will in most cases appear as a major news
story and no car company likes it to happen.

 

[News Scout]

Us an update to this NG....

The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.

Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
no functioning hydraulic system.

The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
contributed to an early failure.

So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
hence solving this issue.

I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
insofar as design.

Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
tolerances remind me of a Lexus.

Thanks for listening.

Ciao.

 

[Bill B. Johnson]

Us an update to this NG....

The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.

Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
no functioning hydraulic system.

The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
contributed to an early failure.

So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
hence solving this issue.

I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
insofar as design.

Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
tolerances remind me of a Lexus.

Thanks for listening.

Ciao.

I'm glad that your problem has now been fixed to your satisfaction. You
might call the mechanic and ask him to advise Honda Inc. of the problem so
they can repair the problem in the same way related to many other vehicles
that have the same problem. They can also correct the design flaw on next
year's model of the same vehicle.

 

[News Scout]

Thanks Bill,

I have done this - the Honda dealer, where the Accord was fixed twice under
warranty, communicated the entire episode to Honda's American HQ
(Engineering Dept). They said this information is now in a national
database to red flag similar repairs/issues that may be caused by this flaw.
No word on how it will be rectified in the 2004 model.

Just glad to have the ride back.


<EOM>

Us an update to this NG....

The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.

Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
no functioning hydraulic system.

The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
contributed to an early failure.

So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
hence solving this issue.

I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
insofar as design.

Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
tolerances remind me of a Lexus.

Thanks for listening.

Ciao.


news:billbjohnson555-2110031026490001@pm3-broad-201.snlo.dialup.fix.net...

 

[Bill B. Johnson]

Thanks Bill,

I have done this - the Honda dealer, where the Accord was fixed twice under
warranty, communicated the entire episode to Honda's American HQ
(Engineering Dept). They said this information is now in a national
database to red flag similar repairs/issues that may be caused by this flaw.
No word on how it will be rectified in the 2004 model.

Just glad to have the ride back.


<EOM>

Us an update to this NG....

The root cause of the issue was this: a metal piece in very close proximity
to the clutch mechanism had rubbed a small metal hose that connects the
clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder to the point that this
small hose had developed a "pinhole" leak analogous to a copper water pipe.

Hence, when the slave clutch cylinder was originally replaced, the dealer
thought that was the problem, seeing as it was covered with hydraulic fluid.
However, they did not notice or find through testing that the slave cylinder
was fine, but the small metal pipe that connects the slave and master clutch
cylinders had a tiny leak. So 30 minutes after I drove the "fixed" Accord
off the lot and applied the clutch a few times, all the hydraulic fluid
again completely leaked out of the system and clutch pressure went away with
no functioning hydraulic system.

The repair report said something about the proximity of this pipe in
relation to another unrelated engine component, after several thousand
miles, could cause friction activity leading to a leak. As Oklahoma has
crappy roads, this jostling of the car over the last six months may have
contributed to an early failure.

So, the end result - Honda fabricated a new design (or they had a local shop
do it) for this small pipe and made one for this Accord that ensures there
is no contact with it and any other piece of the clutch or engine assembly,
hence solving this issue.

I am quite perplexed that computer-assisted modeling and accelerated life
testing, in the thousands of variables that were probably used, did not
catch this design flaw. Being Six Sigma and ISO trained, the end analysis
tells me that there was definitely an error made in this area of the vehicle
insofar as design.

Oh well, it's purring again and all seems to be well. It's so nice to get
rid of that Ford Focus and relax in my car's environment. I'll give Honda
one thing - their road and engine noise suppression is excellent. The sound
tolerances remind me of a Lexus.

Thanks for listening.

Ciao.

Great Work--as a result of your actions and the actions of the service
department of the Honda dealership that you visited--many owners of Honda
cars like the one you own will be repaired. It's obvious that this design
flaw will be fixed on next year's model. Thanks