1995 Honda Passport - Brakes question

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Jason Hsu

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I was thinking of buying a new car in 1-2 years. Since my 1988 Honda Civic has been and still is a good car, the most logical choice for me would be a new Honda Civic.

But I noticed that the new Honda Civics only offer ABS on the top-of-the-line models. It's not even an option on the base or mid-level model. What gives? ABS is not an exotic new technology. It's been widespread for years. I'm not paying $14K for a car that lacks ABS. The top-of-the-line Honda Civic starts at something like $17K!

I would consider a new Toyota Corolla, which offers ABS on all models. But from what I've heard, it's hard to come by on the base models. And the Nissan Sentra is like the Honda Civic - no ABS even as an option on the base model.

What gives? I'm not paying $14K or more for a car that lacks ABS. I can't believe skinflint manufacturers think a few hundred dollars more on a $14K car for a safety feature is exorbitant. Come on, I'd rather skimp on the sunroof, leather-wrapped steering wheel, power door locks, power windows, remote keyless entry, cruise control, etc. But I'm not about to skimp on safety when buying a new car.

Given all this, a used Buick seems like a better deal. ABS has been standard on Buicks for years, and a few of them are on the Consumer Reports recommended used car list. Due to rapid depreciation, I should be able to buy a 4-to-6-year-old Buick Century, Regal, or LeSabre for 4 figures (instead of 5) AND have ABS. I'm willing to sacrifice a few mpg and image in favor of more economy and safety.

If I buy the used Buick (or Ford Escort, Ford Crown Victoria, or Mercury Grand Marquis), I will write Honda, Toyota, and Nissan to tell them that they lost a sale because they were too cheap to add ABS to a $14K car.

Jason Hsu, AG4DG
usenet@@@@@@jasonhsu.com
 
Because Honda is notorious for shoving options down consumers throats. Most cars, you can personalize the options but to save money, Honda builds them all the same. So, if you want ABS, you gotta take sunroof with it.

U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..."

Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."
 
It's been widespread for years. I'm not paying $14K for a car that lacks ABS. The top-of-the-line Honda Civic starts at something like $17K!
Click to expand...

i personally dont care about ABS. read the threads about pump failure, and how much it costs.
 
On 02 Sep 2003 17:45:19 GMT, DrPimpDadi wrote:
Because Honda is notorious for shoving options down consumers throats. Most cars, you can personalize the options but to save money, Honda builds them all the same. So, if you want ABS, you gotta take sunroof with it.
Click to expand...

Would you pay 50% more for the priveledge of not having the sunroof?

Having 30,000 different configurations doesn't come free.
 
I am in the process of repacking my front wheel bearings on my 1995 Honda Passport, 4WD.

What prompted me to do this is, one, I am a new owner of this vehicle and am not sure when this had been done before. The car has 104K miles on it. When I jacked the car up off the ground, in an attempt to turn the wheel, it wouldn't turn even a 1/4 of a turn with moderate pressure. This concerned me. The 4WD is not engaged at this time. So I figured I would re-pack the bearings.

When I removed the caliper from the rotor, the wheel turns fine now. Freewheels great. Rotor looks a little "off"; so those are off to be turned or replaced altogether. Brake pads looked fine.

I am now wondering if the piston itself inside the caliper is just either sticking or is no good.

What is the going cost of new reloaded calipers as opposed to having them rebuilt. Which I will probably end up doing myself at this point. Just wanted to know if someone had a better way of going about this in terms of what the problem might be with the calipers obviously hitting against the rotor too tightly.

Thanks.
 
On Tue said:
When I removed the caliper from the rotor, the wheel turns fine now. Freewheels great. Rotor looks a little "off"; so those are off to be turned or replaced altogether. Brake pads looked fine. -snip- I am now wondering if the piston itself inside the caliper is just either sticking or is no good.
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You may be slightly over-reacting. Every vehicle's brakes that I have ever replaced have had the exact same "problem" it's called pnuematic pressure. It builds up when a vehicle is off, and there's no decent flow of brake fluid, and the fluid just builds up at the lowest point, thanks to gravity. The lowest point happens to be the brake calipers. (This is why a running vehicle is easier to push in neutral than a stopped vehicle is.) Get yourself a C-clamp to push the pistons back in, and then see how easy it is to turn with the calipers on.

Now, to see if the calipers are sticking, try to slide them by hand with them off the rotor.. back and forth, if they dont move freely, then the calipers should be replaced, if they do, and the piston pops back out after pushing it in with the C-clamp, then the pistons are bad.. if the calipers move, and the piston stays where you pushed it to, then nothing is wrong.

Chuck Burns
 
Thanks for the advice/procedure. I agree. I think I might be over-reacting, especially due to the fact that this car has been sitting in my driveway for the past almost two months. It's my first "dive" into the realm of self-mechanics -- and DEFINITELY the last. But I am having fun. I've spent the past few weeks cleaning out both sides of the heads, fixing various problems along the way.

This car was definitely neglected over the past few years regarding oil changes, et cetera.

The current work has now included a total replacement of rocker arm shafts for both sides, the completion of cleaning, re-awaking stuck hydraulic lifters, and replacement of all oil seals, timing belt, thermostat, all belts, et cetera.

It's been fun. The wife's ready to have her car back now, though.

I've been killing time this week on the wheel bearings and brakes (something I am a bit more used to doing) whilst waiting for my new rocker shafts to arrive for the other side.

Thanks for your replies.

AJPDLA
 
Hi Jason:
Look-up the following link....
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/regrev/evaluate/808206.html

Also there are other data from Insurance Institute for Hwy Safety etc. The bottom line is ABS does not offer any significant advantage in an emergency except for a few specific conditions on dry pavement (although the automakers would tend to disagree or keep mum). IMHO it is better to have regular brakes, but learn to do emergency-braking without locking the wheels. Your non-ABS Civic will be cheaper, plus maintenance/service is not that difficult (a DIY job....). Just my $0.02 worth......
Best Regards....

(Jason Hsu) wrote:
I was thinking of buying a new car in 1-2 years. Since my 1988 Honda Civic has been and still is a good car, the most logical choice for me would be a new Honda Civic.

But I noticed that the new Honda Civics only offer ABS on the top-of-the-line models. It's not even an option on the base or mid-level model. What gives? ABS is not an exotic new technology. It's been widespread for years. I'm not paying $14K for a car that lacks ABS. The top-of-the-line Honda Civic starts at something like $17K!

I would consider a new Toyota Corolla, which offers ABS on all models.
...
Click to expand...
 
Looks like a majority of Honda owners don't care about antilock brakes. I knew that there are a few people out there who don't like antilock brakes, but I didn't expect 4:1 to come out against antilock brakes. Why is this? And why does the auto industry have the idea that economy cars do not need ABS? I just don't see why ABS should be treated as an expendable luxury like a premium sound system, sunroof, or cruise control.

My next car WILL have ABS. I vow that I will NOT let ABS encourage me to drive faster, leave less following distance, leave less braking distance, or drive more aggressively.

And if I have to buy your grandfather's dowdy Buick instead of a new Honda Civic to get the ABS for a reasonable price, so be it.

Jason Hsu, AG4DG
usenet@@@@@@jasonhsu.com
 
Looks like a majority of Honda owners don't care about antilock brakes. I knew that there are a few people out there who don't like antilock brakes, but I didn't expect 4:1 to come out against antilock brakes. Why is this?
Click to expand...

Basically, it's brainwashing. If Honda ommitted power steering, they'd all be like "only bad drivers need power steering!"

U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..."

Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."
 
you can get rebuilt calipers with a lifetime warranty at Autozone for $44 each. to get the parts to rebuild would cost 30-35 each. no brainer. go get the calipers
 
you can get rebuilt calipers with a lifetime warranty at Autozone for $44 each. to get the parts to rebuild would cost 30-35 each. no brainer. go get the calipers
 
you can get rebuilt calipers with a lifetime warranty at Autozone for $44 each. to get the parts to rebuild would cost 30-35 each. no brainer. go get the calipers
 
Actual experience has shown that ABS does not prevent any less accidents, instead it has shown that people expect ABS to do things beyond the ordinary capability of normal breaking. I have a Civic and CR-V, neither has ABS.....and I don't feel any need for it. Its your choice and your money and you could be short changing yourself by being narrow minded.

"Jason Hsu" wrote:

I was thinking of buying a new car in 1-2 years. Since my 1988 Honda Civic has been and still is a good car, the most logical choice for me would be a new Honda Civic.

But I noticed that the new Honda Civics only offer ABS on the top-of-the-line models. It's not even an option on the base or mid-level model. What gives? ABS is not an exotic new technology. It's been widespread for years. I'm not paying $14K for a car that lacks ABS. The top-of-the-line Honda Civic starts at something like $17K!

I would consider a new Toyota Corolla, which offers ABS on all models.
...
Click to expand...
 
They probably didn't sell well. In the mid 90's civics and accords with the DX trim level could be purchased with ABS... I've seen a few, but far from many, so they may not have sold well enough for Honda to keep offering.

"Jason Hsu" wrote:

I was thinking of buying a new car in 1-2 years. Since my 1988 Honda Civic has been and still is a good car, the most logical choice for me would be a new Honda Civic.

But I noticed that the new Honda Civics only offer ABS on the top-of-the-line models. It's not even an option on the base or mid-level model. What gives? ABS is not an exotic new technology. It's been widespread for years. I'm not paying $14K for a car that lacks ABS. The top-of-the-line Honda Civic starts at something like $17K!

I would consider a new Toyota Corolla, which offers ABS on all models.
...
Click to expand...
 
Too True. Anyone who knows how brake properly will never need ABS. I have the oposite beef to the original poster. I'm pissed my new Accord has ABS standard. That's built into the price of the car. I don't want to have to pay for a safety feature I'll never need that's only meant to protect retards who can't drive.

"Mista Bone" wrote:

ABS only makes up for a unskilled driver.
Click to expand...
 
Actually, ABS increases stopping distance in an emergency because the brakes are pulsing to prevent locking. Anyone who learns proper emergency braking techniques, can stop a car better than ABS without locking the wheels. The technique is called threshold braking but unlike ABS, you are constantly applying the the brakes to the limit of locking. Proper threshhold breaking is better than ABS. And don't try and say that you can't do that technique in an emergency because you panic because I've used it many times.

"Jason Hsu" wrote:

I was thinking of buying a new car in 1-2 years. Since my 1988 Honda Civic has been and still is a good car, the most logical choice for me would be a new Honda Civic.

But I noticed that the new Honda Civics only offer ABS on the top-of-the-line models. It's not even an option on the base or mid-level model. What gives? ABS is not an exotic new technology. It's been widespread for years. I'm not paying $14K for a car that lacks ABS. The top-of-the-line Honda Civic starts at something like $17K!

I would consider a new Toyota Corolla, which offers ABS on all models.
...
Click to expand...
 
The DX is around $13,600 and has antilock brakes as an option. My local Honda dealer even has one for $12,800.
http://www.gphonda.com/

Jason Hsu wrote:
I was thinking of buying a new car in 1-2 years. Since my 1988 Honda Civic has been and still is a good car, the most logical choice for me would be a new Honda Civic.

But I noticed that the new Honda Civics only offer ABS on the top-of-the-line models. It's not even an option on the base or mid-level model. What gives? ABS is not an exotic new technology. It's been widespread for years. I'm not paying $14K for a car that lacks ABS. The top-of-the-line Honda Civic starts at something like $17K!

I would consider a new Toyota Corolla, which offers ABS on all models.
...
Click to expand...
 
On 2 Sep 2003 10:07:19 -0700, (Jason Hsu) wrote:

I was thinking of buying a new car in 1-2 years. Since my 1988 Honda Civic has been and still is a good car, the most logical choice for me would be a new Honda Civic.
Click to expand...

What gives? I'm not paying $14K or more for a car that lacks ABS. I can't believe skinflint manufacturers think a few hundred dollars more
Click to expand...

Actually the manufacturers provide what the customer wants. People who buy entry level cars are cheaper than those who buy the fully loaded ones, which is why they offer less expensive cars.

Given all this, a used Buick seems like a better deal. ABS has been
Click to expand...

Which shows you are an idiot. Nobody with any intelligence would ever compare any GM product with Honda.
 
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