1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0

I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth
to college. He has a good head on his shoulders.

The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the
gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may
also be a fuel injector not firing properly.

Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds?
I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under
the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in
a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner
indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it
to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds
favor the relay?

Please give me your serious thoughts on the subject. I intend to redo
the interior and exterior of the car for both me and my son to use.
Our other car is a 1997 Jaguar XJ6 that I have completely retooled and
retuned. I feel like this Honda should be as easy to work on as well.

Any and all advice, pictures, references and resources are
appreciated. Please also know that I intend to contribute in any way
shape or form that I can to this forum.

Peace!
Jack

 

I think the odds rather heavily favor the relay.

Mike

 

To test the Main Relay:
1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine light
should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from under the
dash.
2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there
should be another loud click from under the dash.
3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical same
instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click from under the
dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's noise.

Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear close
to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light is on,
you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole.

Try the above. What do you find?

Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually controls
the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the dash idiot
lights illuminate?

 

Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
common problems were at fault.

#1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
should.

#2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
immediately.

VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT
the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
clicking right along.

What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.

Many thanks for your help so far.

Peace!
Jack

 

1-3-4-2, with #1 being closest to the timing belt.

#1 on the distributor will be the lowest terminal towards the firewall.
#3 will be uppermost nearest the firewall, and so on.

That's #4.

Suspect bad compression. This can be due to several things, from broken
rings to burnt valves. A compression test will tell you for sure that
this is the problem.

What can also happen on engines that have sat for a very long time is
that a valve can stick slightly open, or the rings can be sticking on
their carbon deposits.

Take the car out for a good run, making sure to come close to the
redline a couple of times. Take note of how the engine behaves after
that. Any improvement? When it cools down, check the valve clearances to
make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test if there's still a
problem.

 

Ok, I think there might be some misunderstanding from my description.
If the timing belt is on the opposite side of the engine as the
distributor cap (the far end from the dc) then the cylinder I am
having trouble with would be cylinder #1 right? Since it is the one
right next to the timing belt? I think my language was a little
ambiguous.

At this point I have pulled the injectors and swapped 1 with 2 and the
problem stayed with cylinder #1, so I am pretty sure that means a
stuck valve, bad spring or something like that in #1. I will run a
compression test in the morning. That is the next logical step
right? It is not blowing oil, so that means no hole in the cylinder
head. Right???

Does anyone happen to have a picture tutorial for swapping out a
valve, spring or lifter or what have you?

Again, thanks for the marvelous input and next time I will try and be
more patient on the system to post my posts.

 

Ok, couple more hours later. I did the "Italian Tune-Up" so named
for the Italian Cars of the 50s and 60s that responded so well to just
being taken out and "Blown Out" you know, redlining the thing. I read
a forum where someone got upset and made a whole racial thing out of
the term "Italian Tune-Up" so I thought I would qualify the statement
with the proper definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup

Redlining the thing seems to have done "something"???? but I am not
sure what. There is no black, white or blue smoke coming out of the
exhaust. The engine does idle a little smoother, but unplugging the
spark plug wire on cylinder #1 still has ZERO effect. I took the
valve cover off and the rocker arms are all in place and the springs
seem to be working properly. I ran it for a few moments sans cover to
watch. Wouldn't this point toward carbon build up on the valve
causing it not to close fully? The inside of the valve cover is also
covered in that black jellified oil. At some point this thing got too
hot or too low on oil or something.

The good. It's running, and has speed. It isn't gulping gas. It
isn't burning, at least at a rate noticeable in the last few days.
Tires are new.

The bad. Cylinder #1 still missing. I will do the compression test in
the morning at a friend's shop. It needs an alignment, I will take it
to sears to a friend there. The outside of the air intake filter was
COVERED in acorns. That might give you an idea as to how long it
sat. The little fella was ready for the winter and I drove off with
his nuts, LOL.

Tegger, the valve clearance specs are going to be in my manual right?
Working on this Honda is almost as much fun as working on my Jaguar.
They are both well built machines.

Keep the suggestions and ideas coming. I am trying to give as much
info as I can because something I observe may mean more to an
experienced person than it does to me. These places are awesome. Yay
for the free exchange of ideas and information.

Peace!
Jack

 

That's #1, yes.

The proper approach: Take the car for a spin as described before. If it's a
valve sticking, this may free it up. If no change after the drive, check
the valve clearances to make sure they're in spec, then do a compression
test.

I think you'll find #1 to be near zero or at least significantly lower than
the others.

If it's a burnt valve, you need to either swap in a known-good head, or get
the existing one rebuilt by a shop.

If it's a broken ring, the engine is scrap.

If it's rings that are worn out, the engine is scrap (economically,
anyway).

If it's rings that are stuck with carbon, there's another fix.

 

Yes.

I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and there are
several possible reasons for this.

 

In fact, compression that bad doesn't need a fancy guage to test it. If you
pull the crank through the four cylinders with a socket on the crank bolt
(CCW remember) you will feel the compression. If you feel three cylinders
and nothing where the fourth should be that is a good clue.

Mike

 

Good point. You should feel a consistent resistance to your turning as each
cylinder passes TDC on compression.

 

Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved
150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to
the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as
simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall?

Any other ideas?

Peace!
Jack

btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL

 

Seventy-five PSI dry? You've got a dead cylinder. /Minimum/ would be about
150. You're expecting something close to 170 brand-new.

If oil achieved 150 on that cylinder, then the rings are shot. It's
slightly possible that carbon is the culprit, but if your Italian Tuneup
didn't free it up, it's probably just worn out.

Pull the plugs again. Turn the engine (CCW!) so all the cylinders are half
way. Put a tablespoon or so of kerosene or diesel into each spark plug
hole, enough that it runs off the the piston tops to the edges. Leave it a
couple of weeks.

Crank the engine over a couple of times by hand (observing to make sure
there's not so much kerosene as to cause hydro-lock when the plugs are
returned), put the plugs back, then take it for another spirited drive. No
change? Time for a new motor.

 

Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved
150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to
the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as
simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall?

Any other ideas?

Peace!
Jack

btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL

==========================================
I wouldn't hope too much or give up hope at this point. In the '60s we used
to hear about piston rings being stuck as you describe, but I never actually
encountered one. OTOH... you describe sludge on the underside of the valve
cover so it isn't far-fetched. What's the harm of putting an ounce or so of
lacquer thinner into the spark plug hole and following it up half an hour
later with enough oil to lubricate it again? I'd recommend running the
engine long enough to warm it up and boil off the lacquer thinner before
repeating the process, but it sure beats a teardown. Hmm... "Ask"ing: "do
piston rings get stuck" I see all sorts of recommendations to get them
unstuck when the piston is out of the engine, and it still sounds gnarly.
Best of luck, Jack!

Anyway, now you know what the nature of the problem is.

Mike

 

Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the
same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene
sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the
luxury of letting it sit that long.

I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works.
Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same
fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a
weedeater engine.

OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can
pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the
engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is
running fine. What will happen to the engine if it is run this way?
It only has 168,000 miles on it. I have seen these engines on eBay
for 175, does anyone know anything about them??

I'm going to try the lacquer thinner I think.

Thanks again, you guys are a lot of help.

 

Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the
same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene
sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the
luxury of letting it sit that long.

I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works.
Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same
fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a
weedeater engine.

OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can
pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the
engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is
running fine. What will happen to the engine if it is run this way?
It only has 168,000 miles on it. I have seen these engines on eBay
for 175, does anyone know anything about them??

I'm going to try the lacquer thinner I think.

Thanks again, you guys are a lot of help.
=============================================

You should be okay as long as you unplug the fuel injector. Don't expect
great fuel economy, but it should be drivable. Who knows - maybe the ring
(if stuck) will work itself loose while you drive.

Mike

 

Should I also disconnect the corresponding spark plug?

The fuel economy has been 25mpg so far. Hey, what's wrong with a
three cylinder engine after all?? I know a lot of people who aren't
using all cylinders.

Peace!
Jack

 

Should I also disconnect the corresponding spark plug?

The fuel economy has been 25mpg so far. Hey, what's wrong with a
three cylinder engine after all?? I know a lot of people who aren't
using all cylinders.

Peace!
Jack

==================================================

Leave the plug connected. It isn't hurting anything and running with one
lead open (unless you ground it) is bad news for the coil.
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badcoil

Mike

 

Leave it sit as long as you can, then. Maybe do repeated shorter
applications.

So try it.

You know what? You've got absolutely nothing to lose at this point. Except
eventual damage to the catalytic converter, which isn't important if you
don't have to have the car smogged.

Just drive it as-is.

If there's a stuck ring, you'll know because you'll burn oil like crazy.
And it's just possible that regular use will eventually break the ring
free. It the problem never goes away, then you've got a truly dead cylinder
and you can either continue to live with it or replace the engine.

 

Ok, that's the bottom I was looking for. Now, let's look at this from
a different direction. My oldest son knows absolutely nothing about
mechanics. If nothing else, this is tuition. We could rebuild the
pistons and have the head machined or swapped out for a known good
one. I have the space and the friends to do so, but not until it is
warmer.

In the end, if I have a 1986 Honda Accord LXI with a great running
engine, don't I have something that is worth at least a little bit? I
can do the body work, the electrical work is easy. Wouldn't this then
be a classic of some kind?

If not, at least it will be a car paid for free and clear.

So, options at this point as I see them, and feel free to let me know
of any positive ones I have missed.

#1 Run it as is and shoot some lube to the cylinder from time to time
to try and free the ring.

#2 Wait until it is warm and drop the pan, remove the head and
hopefully find that all I need to do is rering the pistons and maybe
hone the cylinder.

#3 New engine. There's a guy selling these on ebay for $175. Anyone
know of a better deal for an engine guaranteed to be working? This
will have to wait till warmer weather.

#4 Call it a loss. (Against my nature, not likely at all.)

Again, if you guys have a brain storm and are not injured in the
process, please share..

Peace and where appropriate Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah as the
case may be.
Jack